16 replies to this topic

[m117ado]

Hello, I've been playing the alpha release for the last 2 days and I realized that the UNSC is a bit overpowered when it comes to fight against the covenant. I mean, 2 paris class frigates were able to do significant damage to my CSS class cruiser, and the capital ships are always taken down so easily that I stoped buying them.

Anyone else agree with me?

[Moustachio86]

I agree with you, but I wouldn't say the UNSC is overpowered. If you read our Covenant balancer Dianno's post, he explains how the UNSC will do a lot of damage straight off but they have a long period for the MACs to recharge. Those two Parises will do significant damage to a CCS but after they've fired they're sitting ducks and the Covenant will begin to mop them up one by one. It's a damaging victory but a victory nonetheless.

Capital ships die quickly in SotP, it's been a thing for a while, it's mainly an issue of how the A.I. handles priorities but it's not truly a bug. Depending on who you play as, capitals are either glorified cruisers (UNSC) or flagships (Covenant). For the UNSC they're cheap and replaceable, for the Covenant you need to support them with a huge fleet so they don't get annihilated instantly or in the case of the Salvation-class just mass produce the bastard. With the damage that's thrown around in SotP, even the most powerful ship can be taken down in seconds if enough is thrown against it. That was the case in the books.

[Unikraken]

One person jumps in and says UNSC are overpowered, another insists the Covenant are overpowered. This is the continued way we've seen this since our release. To me it suggests we have a pretty decent balance. Perhaps you just need to learn your preferred faction a little better?

[m117ado]

One person jumps in and says UNSC are overpowered, another insists the Covenant are overpowered. This is the continued way we've seen this since our release. To me it suggests we have a pretty decent balance. Perhaps you just need to learn your preferred faction a little better?

After reading the post above your own and thinking about it a little, I guess its about the tactics used to defeat your opponent and general intelligence.

All in all, the mod is excellent, thank you very much for making something I've always dreamed of wanting.

[Dianno5741]

There are some things that may tip it in their favor that a few of the devs and I worked out today.

[Demosthenes]

In the Halo Universe there is no balance.  The Covenant win 9 times out of 10 and when the UNSC does win they lose almost all their forces or just get really lucky (it would be a dumb plot line if they won 50% of the time).  In the end the only reason they won is the Great Schism and the Flood outbreak.  So the question is whether you want balance or canon.  Balance is better.

[Antigeist]

Hello, I've been playing the alpha release for the last 2 days and I realized that the UNSC is a bit overpowered when it comes to fight against the covenant. I mean, 2 paris class frigates were able to do significant damage to my CSS class cruiser, and the capital ships are always taken down so easily that I stoped buying them.

Anyone else agree with me?

I tend to get very attached to my capital ships. I want to nurse them to level 10 and watch over them; protect them. To deal with the fact that a big UNSC fleet can alpha down a couple assault carriers in no time flat, I've adopted a strategy that works to use the long cool-down times of MACs against them.

 

Because the CAS doesn't have any important AOE abilities and is basically a glorified CCS with strikecraft, it's not essential that it be there right at the start of the fight. An assault carrier can easily die in the time it takes its energy projectors and torpedoes to cycle, so if my fleet of 5-6 assault carriers is there from the very beginning, at most they're killing 10-12 more ships in that opening salvo. The reward is killing a dozen more ships upfront, and the possible risk is losing one, two, or even more of my assault carriers. What I do is jump in my fleet of CCS and SDVs, which engage the enemy. I try to time it so my assault carriers (and Super Destroyers if I build any) arrive on the battlefield after the opening salvo. This means (1) all the MACs are on cooldown and (2) the UNSC fleet has been whittled down significantly. My capitals advance and engage. At that point, it's still possible to lose them, but the UNSC fleet takes such heavy losses during that first salvo that it's much harder to focus fire them down, especially if it's the AI.

 

I look at it this way. The huge fleet of CCS and SDVs is like putting the knife in and the squad of assault carriers that come in second to help mop up is me twisting the blade. Like I said, it's still possible to lose them at that point, but with around 40k hp for a level 3-4 CAS, after that initial opening exchange, it's going to take a lot of effort to bring one down and if it does go down, the time and effort it takes to do so takes the heat off of a lot of the CCS on the field. 

 

This strategy also means they can avoid the disabling effects of any nukes.

 

That being said, if I feel I absolutely have to commit them up front as a battering ram and that I'm doomed without doing so, I will. But generally, I feel that committing them such that they enter the battle shortly after the opening exchange greatly increases their chances of living and doesn't terribly reduce the amount of damage they do over the course of the entire battle. A big UNSC fleet can easily take out multiple assault carriers in that first salvo, but if a battle lasts a minute or two, overall your assault carriers aren't missing out on a ton of the action if they arrive 15-20 seconds late. But their survivability goes through the roof.

[Unikraken]

I tend to get very attached to my capital ships. I want to nurse them to level 10 and watch over them; protect them. To deal with the fact that a big UNSC fleet can alpha down a couple assault carriers in no time flat, I've adopted a strategy that works to use the long cool-down times of MACs against them.

 

Because the CAS doesn't have any important AOE abilities and is basically a glorified CCS with strikecraft, it's not essential that it be there right at the start of the fight. An assault carrier can easily die in the time it takes its energy projectors and torpedoes to cycle, so if my fleet of 5-6 assault carriers is there from the very beginning, at most they're killing 10-12 more ships in that opening salvo. The reward is killing a dozen more ships upfront, and the possible risk is losing one, two, or even more of my assault carriers. What I do is jump in my fleet of CCS and SDVs, which engage the enemy. I try to time it so my assault carriers (and Super Destroyers if I build any) arrive on the battlefield after the opening salvo. This means (1) all the MACs are on cooldown and (2) the UNSC fleet has been whittled down significantly. My capitals advance and engage. At that point, it's still possible to lose them, but the UNSC fleet takes such heavy losses during that first salvo that it's much harder to focus fire them down, especially if it's the AI.

 

I look at it this way. The huge fleet of CCS and SDVs is like putting the knife in and the squad of assault carriers that come in second to help mop up is me twisting the blade. Like I said, it's still possible to lose them at that point, but with around 40k hp for a level 3-4 CAS, after that initial opening exchange, it's going to take a lot of effort to bring one down and if it does go down, the time and effort it takes to do so takes the heat off of a lot of the CCS on the field. 

 

This strategy also means they can avoid the disabling effects of any nukes.

 

That being said, if I feel I absolutely have to commit them up front as a battering ram and that I'm doomed without doing so, I will. But generally, I feel that committing them such that they enter the battle shortly after the opening exchange greatly increases their chances of living and doesn't terribly reduce the amount of damage they do over the course of the entire battle. A big UNSC fleet can easily take out multiple assault carriers in that first salvo, but if a battle lasts a minute or two, overall your assault carriers aren't missing out on a ton of the action if they arrive 15-20 seconds late. But their survivability goes through the roof.

This is the kind of shit I love reading from the community. Well thought out strategy showing us potential areas of exploitation or potentially the kind of fighting we want to emphasize.

[Dianno5741]

We can have both balance and canon. The unsc will take losses I can assure you that. BUT we balance that out with making their economy much better than the covenants. The covenant are an early game/mid game faction. If the UNSC can hold on without losing too many planets or a mortal wound planet (say your only metal volcanic world) then they will begin to overtake the Covenant with sheer numbers. The Infinity will also be the best Titan over the others and able to really bring some pain with it. The Covenant Titan will be a semi glorified capital. So the game is very balanced, its just your flavor of play style. Covenant favor the rush, UNSC favor the turtle.

[SPECTRE]

The Infinity will also be the best Titan over the others and able to really bring some pain with it. The Covenant Titan will be a semi glorified capital. So the game is very balanced, its just your flavor of play style. Covenant favor the rush, UNSC favor the turtle.

Infinity should be So OP it can Kill anything and everything.

[Moustachio86]

We can have both balance and canon. The unsc will take losses I can assure you that. BUT we balance that out with making their economy much better than the covenants. The covenant are an early game/mid game faction. If the UNSC can hold on without losing too many planets or a mortal wound planet (say your only metal volcanic world) then they will begin to overtake the Covenant with sheer numbers. The Infinity will also be the best Titan over the others and able to really bring some pain with it. The Covenant Titan will be a semi glorified capital. So the game is very balanced, its just your flavor of play style. Covenant favor the rush, UNSC favor the turtle.

And before Defender says it, Forerunnners favour the steamroller. The very slowly accelerating steamroller.

[Defender0]

And before Defender says it, Forerunnners favour the steamroller. The very slowly accelerating steamroller.

the slow but steady steamroller surrounded by the swarm

[Vrishnak92]

I love these descriptions Moustachio & defender

[Unikraken]

Will be interesting to balance the swarm part of that with the not-minidumping or framerate dropping to 0 part.

[D4RKST0RM99]

Out of the three factions most to least who can have the largest fleet? because if it goes "the less ships you have-the more powerful they are" then the forerunners could have some of the deadliest ships known

[Dianno5741]

If the forerunners are completed then they will fit the few but scarey role. They'll have sentinels too for cheap horde tactics. Basically a faction with no middle ship. Cheap sentinels or capitals.

[D4RKST0RM99]

If the forerunners are completed then they will fit the few but scarey role. They'll have sentinels too for cheap horde tactics. Basically a faction with no middle ship. Cheap sentinels or capitals.

and the Mantle's Approach with its deployable frigates, hey would it work to apply the forerunner Knight's function to the M'sA? the Knight deploys a watcher from its back then the watcher deployes crawlers, the Forerunner titan could do something similar, along the lines of the Infinity deploying Stridents meaning the M'sA would deploy a small but light carrier like ship that would deploy smaller attack ships, this would keep with the spirit of Halo 4's new enemies and also make the Titan not just another battleship covered in weapons.