21 replies to this topic

[HTRK74JR]

DGaius: This discussion was created by a series of comments placed in the playtesters application thread. I created this particular thread for this discussion. All relevant post were split off and posted here. Please use this thread to voice your opinion, feedback and/or ideas regarding the size of the Space Skirmish levels and/or ways to improve them. 

 

 

 

My biggest issue  by far is the size of the maps, you guys need maps specifically designed for CaW ( i can actually create space skirmish maps, it's just been a while though)

Edited by DGaius, 28 July 2014 - 04:12 PM.
Added an introduction

[Crisiss]

My biggest issue  by far is the size of the maps, you guys need maps specifically designed for CaW ( i can actually create space skirmish maps, it's just been a while though)

This by far. My biggest issue is the AI likes to gun it for my resource asteroids and if I don't waste money on defending them I'm broke. And they can kill them in like 5 shots. I created some skirmish maps for the mod but some vanilla assets make the game crash.

[HTRK74JR]

This by far. My biggest issue is the AI likes to gun it for my resource asteroids and if I don't waste money on defending them I'm broke. And they can kill them in like 5 shots. I created some skirmish maps for the mod but some vanilla assets make the game crash.

fuck the amount of times that a frigate across the map decides to aim at my resources, just grrrrrr

[DGaius]

My biggest issue  by far is the size of the maps, you guys need maps specifically designed for CaW ( i can actually create space skirmish maps, it's just been a while though)

Creating levels is easy enough, I can churn out a dozen of them on a day. The problem I run into however is that I have no idea on how to make them interesting. Pretty much every level would look the same, as they already do in EaW/FoC. So if you guys have suggestions on how to make them more interesting/tactically different, than I'd love to hear those. I've already requested Halo Props, which are being made. We already added different backgrounds, but it wouldn't hurt to put in more. Increasing the size is a good idea based on what you and Crisiss said, so I'll make sure to keep that in mind. 

[Crisiss]

Creating levels is easy enough, I can churn out a dozen of them on a day. The problem I run into however is that I have no idea on how to make them interesting. Pretty much every level would look the same, as they already do in EaW/FoC. So if you guys have suggestions on how to make them more interesting/tactically different, than I'd love to hear those. I've already requested Halo Props, which are being made. We already added different backgrounds, but it wouldn't hurt to put in more. Increasing the size is a good idea based on what you and Crisiss said, so I'll make sure to keep that in mind.

You can do a lot with asteroid fields and such. Just play with it a bit. Also, put extra bases down. Those are the most fun, multi-base games.

[DGaius]

You can do a lot with asteroid fields and such. Just play with it a bit. 

I've been doing this for more than 7 years Abusing the Asteroid fields was one of the first things I did. I did a 'Kuipers Belt' level (relatively small) that allowed smaller ships to sneak through the belt and attack the Starbases directly. Than there's also Reach, which featured a lot of shipyards. An earlier draft of this level had an UNSC starbase in the middle, set to hostile. There's two problems with that:

1. It assaults all units, including the UNSC ones. Which is weird if you're playing the UNSC (our mod is set between Halo 2 and 3, so this level never made any sense);
2. I can make them either UNSC afiliated, which would be a huge tactical advantage for the UNSC player or use them as background props. Neither are very appealing to me, although the UNSC affiliated version would be great for GC. 

Other than that I did a level with a Mustafar like planet in the background, the idea being that it was glassed. It had a small Covenant force in the middle, which represented a couple of rebelling Elites. Obviously I did a level involving a Halo Installation 4 background prop. None of these levels got released though, since I couldn't get the others to test them (which makes this whole thread that much more relevant). 

 

Right now I am looking for things a little less obvious. New things to include and surprises to keep things interesting. The Kuipers Belt level was interesting in a way, because it's one large (assymetrical) stroke of asteroids in all shapes and sizes. It only allows large ships to pass through at certain points, creating choke points. The 'surprise' obviously being that small corvette's and fighters can simply ignore these chokepoints. Similarly for Land Skirmish I have things planned like 'Urban Combat' levels, which only feature infantry. In these levels I am hoping that we'll be able to implement environmental destruction, which you could use as a tactical advantage (I may have taken that que from playing to much Battlefield).  These are the kind of tricky things I am looking for right now. Atleast for Skirmish, since GC is more about the larger picture instead of one battle. 

 

 Also, put extra bases down. Those are the most fun, multi-base games.

 

We have this, although it's not released yet. We split Space Skirmish in regular Foc type games and a type of gameplay that does not per se feature one Starbase. The idea is that you build a 'Defense Grid', which consists of buildings each having their own function. So it's basically a more elaborate version of what we have ingame now. 

Edited by DGaius, 28 July 2014 - 04:13 PM.
Made an error, the Defense Grid gameplay is implemented, but has not been released.

[HTRK74JR]

Well, you say that no one has access to these files, what about google documents? it would not ber perfect for large scale, but since FoC files are rather small, and XML files are easily fixed, we could use that for now to trade the CaW maps and XML

[DGaius]

Well, you say that no one has access to these files, what about google documents? it would not ber perfect for large scale, but since FoC files are rather small, and XML files are easily fixed, we could use that for now to trade the CaW maps and XML

Don't take this personal, but I will most likely have to delete this again and post a general 'how we are going to work around no one having acces' part in a pinned topic in the playtester section. This way we'll have all the info a lot better organised. If you have more of these kind of questions, please do send me a PM. The more I am prepared for actually having playtesters the better. Although this is something I will also be discussing with the rest of the team, once they move in. 

 

Let's just say I am incredibly tedious/ organised. 

[Crisiss]

Not to completely blow by what you just said to HTR but having access to the files or even a screenshot of the new mapmaking assets would be easier than using vanilla assets.

 

Literally the only interesting things there are the explosive canisters and asteroid fields. 

[DGaius]

Not to completely blow by what you just said to HTR but having access to the files or even a screenshot of the new mapmaking assets would be easier than using vanilla assets.

 

Literally the only interesting things there are the explosive canisters and asteroid fields. 

I wish I had more interesting things. Like seriously, there's not much done at this point. Which is why I am asking you guys for inspiration. Obviously there's the shipyard assets and SMAC stations. Elsoto did an Ark (to which I have no access) and Bornsteller is doing the Halo Installations. I am not sure if I asked for planet reskins yet, but that'd be a good idea. There's also a proplist with some items I came up with to make things interesting. Like Covenant Neon Space Traffic Signs, because why not regulate your Space Traffic. Those aren't done of course. 

[HTRK74JR]

I wish I had more interesting things. Like seriously, there's not much done at this point. Which is why I am asking you guys for inspiration. Obviously there's the shipyard assets and SMAC stations. Elsoto did an Ark (to which I have no access) and Bornsteller is doing the Halo Installations. I am not sure if I asked for planet reskins yet, but that'd be a good idea. There's also a proplist with some items I came up with to make things interesting. Like Covenant Neon Space Traffic Signs, because why not regulate your Space Traffic. Those aren't done of course. 

i know, in canon there were large amounts of ship debri left due to the battles, so you could probably start filling steroid fields with wrecks of UNSC ships.

 

Unfortunately, you don't play the space maps for the design, you play them because it's the space battles, make 2-3 good space maps, focus design on the ground to be really fucking good. Map size is a huge issue though currently, that is one thing that needs to be fixed

[Crisiss]

I wish I had more interesting things. Like seriously, there's not much done at this point. Which is why I am asking you guys for inspiration. Obviously there's the shipyard assets and SMAC stations. Elsoto did an Ark (to which I have no access) and Bornsteller is doing the Halo Installations. I am not sure if I asked for planet reskins yet, but that'd be a good idea. There's also a proplist with some items I came up with to make things interesting. Like Covenant Neon Space Traffic Signs, because why not regulate your Space Traffic. Those aren't done of course. 

Ohh, I thought you meant dynamic objects. There's lots of options for static though. High Charity, Uneven Elephant, shipyards, plasma canisters, etc. Honestly, I'm not too worried about that though. GC is where Empire at War shines, I'd rather you guys focus on that than skirmish map assets. You could do some neat shit with that. Maybe some ship wreckage if you're willing to fuck with models (I like death clones anyhow so it couldn't hurt and a Halo mod would definitely need them). 

 

I'll see if I have anything else in mind though.

[DGaius]

Unfortunately, you don't play the space maps for the design, you play them because it's the space battles, make 2-3 good space maps, focus design on the ground to be really fucking good. Map size is a huge issue though currently, that is one thing that needs to be fixed

 

 

. Honestly, I'm not too worried about that though. GC is where Empire at War shines, I'd rather you guys focus on that than skirmish map assets. 

Probably not, but that's not stopping me from trying to make them interesting. The size is obviously noted

 

 

i know, in canon there were large amounts of ship debri left due to the battles, so you could probably start filling steroid fields with wrecks of UNSC ships.

 

High Charity,  shipyards, Maybe some ship wreckage if you're willing to fuck with models (I like death clones anyhow so it couldn't hurt and a Halo mod would definitely need them). 

Check, check and check. Those are done (or being done, the marathon is the only one with a death clone right now). 

 

 

Uneven Elephant, plasma canisters, 

Good suggestions: easily done and still giving you more immersion. 

 

 

Ohh, I thought you meant dynamic objects. 

 

I wish we could do dynamic objects, but that would probably cause a lot of lag. FoC was designed to use two cores max. So when you use to much/many animation/particle effects/polys/HD textures, it automatically causes a lot of lag. Which is a shame. 

[Bornstellaris]

Actually, I could use that prop list where ever you've got it Gaius. Also, does our Marathon model need a redux?

[DGaius]

It's still on our old forums. I updated the list a while back, so it's not does not include the stuff mentioned here. Since this is not the staff forum, I am not linking it It's under ideas, proposals (half way down, last post). 

I don't know about the Marathon though. A new death clone would be a good idea nonetheless. 

[haseo yashimora]

the huge problem i get is if theres to many fighters on map the game crashes im forced to play as UNSC since if i play covi UNSC will make carriers and spam fighters making the game crash, ya not good dud!

[Crisiss]

the huge problem i get is if theres to many fighters on map the game crashes im forced to play as UNSC since if i play covi UNSC will make carriers and spam fighters making the game crash, ya not good dud!

Sounds like your PC isn't sufficient for the mod. Mine lags a bit but it runs it fine. Also, off topic. Post that in another thread.

[haseo yashimora]

Sounds like your PC isn't sufficient for the mod. Mine lags a bit but it runs it fine. Also, off topic. Post that in another thread.

off topic ?_? im going by the title of "skrimishes" and "other problems", meh

[DGaius]

I may have an explanation: FoC is made to use two cores Max. The current particles we have are relatively extensive (compared to the original ones). With the amount of fighters the AI produces, it may well be that the lag is so severe that the game crashes. Although I have not heard of such an occasion before. If you want specific help I would suggest you PM me. I'll see if I can set up a troubleshooting subforum and get the more tech savy members of our team to help you

[haseo yashimora]

I may have an explanation: FoC is made to use two cores Max. The current particles we have are relatively extensive (compared to the original ones). With the amount of fighters the AI produces, it may well be that the lag is so severe that the game crashes. Although I have not heard of such an occasion before. If you want specific help I would suggest you PM me. I'll see if I can set up a troubleshooting subforum and get the more tech savy members of our team to help you

ty very much ill test being the covi again see if it crashes again if it does ill pm u with a screenshot