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The Halo Installations.


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#1 wolfie615

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 04:34 AM

I was reading the Dev Q&A just before, and noticed that they mentioned not being sure what to do with the halo installations. This got me to thinking. I know you don't want it to be a super weapon and perhaps it doesn't have to be. Bear with me, this is the second time I have typed out this post since the first time, an accidental push of TAB followed by a reflexive backspace push, caused the internet to eat my post and I lost ALL the typed out progress.

 

Halo installations could function as weapons without being super weapons (Or at least not SUPEROPBROKEASS weapons). However they would only be able to do this once. They would be devastating, but also possible to recover from. As well as a cost decision you have to make.

 

Ability Name:

 

- Desperate Measures (UNSC)

- Great Journey (Covenant)

- Birthright OR Ancestral Legacy (Forerunner Remnants)

 

Description:

 

UNSC: When all else fails, marines will willingly lay down their lives and fire the halo if it means stopping the covenant. This will however, break the firing mechanism

 

Covenant: The time has come to please the prophets and advance the great journey. Put those captured human slaves to use and activate the halo. This will not be possible to do more than once.

 

Forerunner: The time has come, Pick up the mantle of your ancestors and fire the halo ring. History is doomed to repeat after all. The sentinels have malfunctioned and as such, the ring will be unable to fire twice.

 

Conditions of Use:

 

- Must have Colonized Halo Installation

 

- Must have explored halo installation 100%

 

- Halo must not have been fired yet.

 

Visual Representation and Range:

 

- Visually the ring being activated would be depicted with a glowing ball in the center of the ring that explodes with a flash. A bright shock wave would then expand outwards in a ring.

 

- Range wise. I initially had the idea of 5 average phase lanes away (Aka average distance.) So that would make its actual range somewhat map specific. On a tightly packed, dense map with lots of short phase lanes, it would do major damage, but on a spread out map with lots of room, it perhaps would not be so deadly. This is of course, open to being altered.

 

Effects of the shock wave:

 

- Ships and structures are immediately imposed with following conditions:

 

- Transferred to neutral team.

- Abilities disabled.

- Weapons disabled.

- Sub-Light thrusters disabled.

- Passive regeneration disabled.

- Shield recharge disabled. (Where applicable)

- Can be captured. (With the crew extractor ships (Structures) or boarding parties (Ships). Covenant have yet to get boarding parties but I think they will, considering the roles that the boarding parties played in halo 2)

 

Ships and structures would essentially be completely shut down and not belong to you, to represent their entire crew being immediately wiped out, the halo rings only destroy organic life after all.

 

- Colonies affected by the halo installation are completely wiped out, leaving the planet as a colonizable  empty planet again.

 

Naturally this would have a few issues, specifically for people like me who like to play maps that randomly generate. So naturally a few exceptions, and defenses would need to be a thing as well. The idea that I had for this was as follows.

 

- Capital planets (in capital victory only) are reduced to 0 population, instead of the colony being destroyed completely.

 

- Flagship (Flagship victory only) Has special, expensive shielding built into its armor (Right from the get go of course) which allows its crew to hide inside panic room like situations, as such the halo ring shuts down all systems (Weapons, passive regen, abilities, sub-light thrusters etc etc) to resemble the ships crew all hunkering down in the panic rooms instead

 

- A research would be added to all factions, it would require 6 labs, and have a mid-game cost. Because lets face it, it may be a fairly random chance that you use it. The research would add special shielding to all "Emergency Bombardment Shelter" Infrastructure upgrades, Meaning that if you had the tier 3 bombardment shelters (Most planets start with 0) then your planet would survive with reduced population, instead of being completely wiped out. The level of population surviving would be based on what level of Bombardment shelters you have.

 

- The titan class ships would also be affected by this research, and if it is claimed, then the titan would behave like the flagship, its crew all hunkering down in shielded bunkers inside the ship meaning all systems are shut down until the ring has passed out of the gravity well that the titan occupies.

 

As stated above, the halo would only be usable once, the colony on the halo would be wiped out regardless of the emergency shelter upgrades you had on it, as the radiation is so intense at the center of the blast. Perhaps Halo installations shouldn't gain access to infrastructure upgrades... I don't know exactly. But this is my current idea on how the HALO systems could be implemented, without making them so over powered that activating one would seal your victory.

 

It is designed to be used more as a defensive measure in a way, when you're on the back foot, because you will be forced to sacrifice your fleet unless you manage to keep them out running the blast.


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#2 Whitehalomango

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:20 AM

Firstly, this still seems overpowered. Secondly, if your fleets and structures become neutral, wouldn't that mean they become a pirate fraction (the random small ones)  because i'm fairly certain that you can't have a empty ship in the game without it being destroyed. Lastly, A better alternative would be just a EMP effect on ships and structures. Obviously you could research EMP shielding to neutralise the effects but the effects would be similar to what you have except more disabled and less completely devoid of life.


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#3 Crisiss

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:29 AM

I'm just gonna stop this here and say no. No superweapons in the mod. Case closed. Whatever the amazing devs that I love so much end up doing with the Halo rings will more than likely be passive but that remains to be seen.


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#4 wolfie615

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:59 AM

Lore wise, the halo installations are not EMP rings, they're designed to kill all organic life. They're fail safes put in place to starve the flood of its food source. They have one, single defining quality. They kill. They're not shield worlds, they're not the ark, they don't defend or provide safe haven. They are simply there to kill.

 

So riddle me this. If you do take a more "Passive" route... Why bother including the halo installations at all? What purpose would they serve? Because a shield world is a defensive installation, and the Ark is a safe haven. So what passive bonuses would owning a weapon actually give? Fear value maybe? What good is that fear if you can't activate the weapon? That's like me waving a nuclear detonator in your face, that isn't actually linked to a nuke. Or a gun that doesn't have any bullets in it.

 

The idea I suggested is actually not as over powered as you might first think. Yes the ships are transferred to a militia/pirate faction. But they're unable to move, shoot, repair, use abilities or anything. They can literally only sit there. They can be destroyed, or captured at will. They're crewless ships after all. You can always recolonize a planet after the ring has passed, it isn't like your colony and planet are gone for every. Only the colony on it at the time. Rebuilding is simple. Hell you'd be able to capture back your own structures.

 

The research is not overly expensive and the emergency bunkers aren't hugely resource intensive either. By the point you're ready to fire a halo ring, when things have gotten really bad, then you'd be able to survive the blast with emergency bunkers.

 

It feels like neither of you really read the entire post. Just kind of stopped at the bit you didn't like. I'd suggest reading the whole thing. I did explain counters and defenses, as well as several balancing options.

 

But like I always say. Ideas are just ideas. If my ideas get used, then yay, I helped and I get to feel good. If they don't, it isn't a huge deal, because at least I shared in the first place.


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#5 m468

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:52 AM

We cannot use your idea do to sins hard coding. Secondly we put the instelations in for visual effect and they are rather rare. We wanted to provide then feel. On top of that they provide a way to colonize a gas giant.
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#6 wolfie615

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:04 AM

We cannot use your idea do to sins hard coding. Secondly we put the instelations in for visual effect and they are rather rare. We wanted to provide then feel. On top of that they provide a way to colonize a gas giant.

You're referring to the ability? There is an ability in vanilla sins that has a similar effect "Wail of the Sacrificed" I believe it is called. The visual effect is not there. But it wipes out your colony to deal massive damage to all the surrounding and nearby gravity wells.

 

I'm not talking about leaving empty ships. I'm talking about leaving neutral faction ships that are completely disabled to give the appearance of lifelessness.

 

Again, though, it is just a suggestion. I have no idea exactly how sins hard coding works.


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#7 Scorpii

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:13 AM

You're not the only one to make the exact same case. Simple answer, no. thank you for it anyway though


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#8 wolfie615

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:15 AM

You're not the only one to make the exact same case. Simple answer, no. thank you for it anyway though

That's fine. Just a real shame to think of the thing that gave the series its namesake, being reduced to little more than fan service :/


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#9 Unikraken

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:25 AM

That's fine. Just a real shame to think of the thing that gave the series its namesake, being reduced to little more than fan service :/

SotP is a competitive mod. Superweapons are not in line with that.


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#10 m468

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:43 AM

Your idea for them is absolutely not possible. Yes, I did go to one of the best sins modders to make sure. As they are the planet for all intents and purposes, we cannot make them do this.
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#11 Lavo

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 04:52 PM

You're referring to the ability? There is an ability in vanilla sins that has a similar effect "Wail of the Sacrificed" I believe it is called.

Planets are not the same type of entity as planet modules. This is not possible as planets cannot accept castable abilities.



#12 wolfie615

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:31 PM

Planets are not the same type of entity as planet modules. This is not possible as planets cannot accept castable abilities.

I understand that they're not in vanilla sins. But then I've seen mods with some pretty crazy changes for all sorts of games. I figured suggesting it was better than not. Considering I don't know what kind of skills and abilities or lack thereof that the mod staff have. I'm just a faceless consumer of the mod. To the best of my knowledge you might have had someone capable of editing it.

 

skills and abilities or lack thereof

I feel like I should explain this, before you all think I'm insulting you. Look at it from my perspective. I'm on the outside, just a consumer, no insider knowledge. So for all I know, this mod could be coded by a bunch of first time coders who learn as they go, or, it could be coded by the greatest coders on earth, real prodigies. Naturally I have no idea, so neutral response.


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#13 Crisiss

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:01 PM

The Wail of the Sacrificed uses the cultural station to perform its ability. What you are going to learn is that Sins is entirely based on hardcoding, there is no (relatively) easily modifiable engine like Total War, Skyrim, or Empire at War has. Modifiying the hardcoding (read: base coding, building blocks, etc.) would require making the ENTIRE GAME from the ground up, and that's a no-no. Your idea is nice and all but it's just not happening. The Halos are because it's a Halo mod. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also, the idea is absolutely broken. Charging money to use it would just be stupid anyways so that doesn't fix it. There's also, thanks to hardcoding, no way to limit it to one shot per faction. If you really want to argue balance and other mechanics sure. Affecting Titans? No. That's stupid. Titans are Titans for a reason and are faction specific, and they're supposed to be unique ships. Do you really think a Covenant crew is going to know the first thing about Infinity, or even want to? Heretic weaponry and whatnot. Also, the Halos only having the Wail range is a standing issue with lore. If you think the ring should act like the Cleansing Ring from that one Halo Wars mission then is the entire map supposed to get wiped out? Where's the sense in that? That's not overpowered?

Nobody is offended or mad at you or trying to insult you, you just don't seem to understand all of the factors that go into simple ideas like this ability. The modding team is very good (probably one of/ the best team on SotP) and has Lavo working especially who is amazing at what he does. Not to mention this ability is in no way essential and since most of the team has lives they aren't going to put in this kind of work for something non-essential. They're gonna put what little time they have into new stuff for the UNSC or Covenant as we are currently rebuilding both of them. That is our priority until further notice. When we get enough done and enough resources to do something else you will probably be made aware.

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#14 m468

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:16 PM

I understand that they're not in vanilla sins. But then I've seen mods with some pretty crazy changes for all sorts of games. I figured suggesting it was better than not. Considering I don't know what kind of skills and abilities or lack thereof that the mod staff have. I'm just a faceless consumer of the mod. To the best of my knowledge you might have had someone capable of editing it.

 

skills and abilities or lack thereof

I feel like I should explain this, before you all think I'm insulting you. Look at it from my perspective. I'm on the outside, just a consumer, no insider knowledge. So for all I know, this mod could be coded by a bunch of first time coders who learn as they go, or, it could be coded by the greatest coders on earth, real prodigies. Naturally I have no idea, so neutral response.

I've talked with two of the best Sins of a Solar Empire modders out there, one of whom is Lavo. This is literally IS NOT POSSIBLE IN THIS ENGINE. When we say something like that we mean it, we are not "first timers" by any means. Lavo for example is the one person behind Sins of a Galactic Empire. A mod that does nearly everything that you can do in Sins save a few things, the number of which you can count on one hand. 


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#15 Metanator

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:09 PM

Slightly off-topic here, but I still think you could use the Proto-Halo as the forerunner starbase. IIRC, the Forerunner Trilogy had them being actively aimed at the flood, and not just let off. Or you could give it an ability like the vanilla Advent starbase where it does a lot of damage in AOE.


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#16 Unikraken

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:12 AM

Slightly off-topic here, but I still think you could use the Proto-Halo as the forerunner starbase. IIRC, the Forerunner Trilogy had them being actively aimed at the flood, and not just let off. Or you could give it an ability like the vanilla Advent starbase where it does a lot of damage in AOE.

The Forerunner faction in our mod isn't going to be some time traveling group of Forerunners who show up with all of their vast knowledge and power. They're a group that has awakened in the post Halo 4 environment where the domain is still destroyed and most of their power is going to rely on sentinels and the few ships they can muster. They are not the Forerunners ancient humanity faced, they are a nearly extinct group of individuals surviving off the work of the long dead. They'll be impressive, they'll have very interesting structures and ships, but they won't have Halo installations because they don't have the knowledge of how they were built and they just don't have the ability to produce the resources necessary.


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#17 Defender0

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 09:54 AM

individuals

implying more than one forerunner.

 

honestly, i feel like the odds of there being one forerunner ship that has a real living forerunner would be the same odds of surviving an asteroid field in star wars episode 5. Sentinels and Ancilla (AI for the uninformed) IMO should be what the faction consists of



#18 Unikraken

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:17 AM

implying more than one forerunner.

 

honestly, i feel like the odds of there being one forerunner ship that has a real living forerunner would be the same odds of surviving an asteroid field in star wars episode 5. Sentinels and Ancilla (AI for the uninformed) IMO should be what the faction consists of

My head-canon for the expansion right now is that a single Shield World that was hidden from M. Bias and used by fleeing Forerunners is awoken by its curator AI when it detects that 2 other Shield Worlds are destroyed in relatively quick succession. Unable to leave to see what's happened, it assumes something is deliberately attacking Shield installations and wakes its masters up to prepare to defend their new home. This also explains why initial contact with the race in the mod is hostile.


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#19 m468

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:40 AM

implying more than one forerunner.

 

honestly, i feel like the odds of there being one forerunner ship that has a real living forerunner would be the same odds of surviving an asteroid field in star wars episode 5. Sentinels and Ancilla (AI for the uninformed) IMO should be what the faction consists of

 

 

My head-canon for the expansion right now is that a single Shield World that was hidden from M. Bias and used by fleeing Forerunners is awoken by its curator AI when it detects that 2 other Shield Worlds are destroyed in relatively quick succession. Unable to leave to see what's happened, it assumes something is deliberately attacking Shield installations and wakes its masters up to prepare to defend their new home. This also explains why initial contact with the race in the mod is hostile.

Guys we need to figure this thing out among ourselves before we say anything out there about it.


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#20 Unikraken

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:44 AM

Guys we need to figure this thing out among ourselves before we say anything out there about it.

Fair enough. Let's not start the hype train too early.


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