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#1 Azo 'Salcam

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 11:15 PM

Hey there Dak here, local Covenant Fan.

 

Well its great to see the Infinity well on its way into space with the cute Thomas Lasky impression :)

 

But I'd like to suggest some options for the Covenant, if that is alright.

 

First thing I'd like to address is the Pious class vessel.

  • Personally I think the Pious should NOT be the colony vessel. 
  • It should INSTEAD be similar to the UNSC's Hesphaesus ACU craft. That way both the UNSC and Covenant have as I called it, a "Space Station Plopper"

This would then result in the Pious class not being able to be built until its RESEARCHED in the Covenant Salvation tree; just like how the UNSC has to do it for their ACU ship.

 

That this leaves the DDS vessel as the Colony ship like the Phoenix Assault ship, except the DDS is is both ships in one like it is normally it has teeth. So the Covenant would have a combat-colony ship since they ARE supposed to have the early game advantage, but the DDS still sort of stinks, so its not like it'd be over powered; heck the Phoenix assault ship can have a nuke launcher installed instead, so that's pretty well balanced for early game to me.

 

Now Another big problem: The Covenant lacks enough ships to do a glassing maneuver.

All they get are:

  • SDV Heavy Corvette
  • DDS Cruiser
  • Salvation class or "CAS Assault Carrier"

Well lets phase it kids, the SDV as cool as it looks, sucks. BAAAAD. You cannot get enough DDS cruisers and the Salvation class will cost you an arm and a leg until late game.

But what is really the problem? The CCS Cruiser (Truth and Reconciliation looking vessel) according to lore, the books and the games even, depict this bad boy being able to glass planets; packs a wallop too.

 

So in my opinion, the CCS should be given its glassing ability. PLUS its not overpowered, because you have to work at your military facilities, have enough logic slots to even think of plopping that many facilities down somewhere, researched past the other ships, THEN have the money to build the CCS when you actually have enough military facilities to do that research. So the CCS doesn't even appear as fast for the Covenant to begin with. So that wouldn't even be overpowered at all.

 

So with that, the Covenant would have:

  • SDV Heavy Corvette for glassing (which is about as crappy as the Charon, except the SDV has fighters)
  • DDS Cruiser (which would be the almost near equivalent of the Phoenix Assault ship)
  • CCS battle cruiser
  • CAS Salvation class (late game unit)

I do understand that the ai files in Sins are kinda...topsy turvy in coding but if it could be done the CCS should be allowed to bombard.

 

 

For the UNSC I personally think they should get a fighter upgrade. By upgrade I mean they NEED their Saber Fighers.

BUT before you get your Captain Keyes in a twist, the Saber would not be replacing the Long sword fighter on every fighter carrier type vessel. The Athens would be left alone (it spams enough fighters as it is) But the Saber woudl be reserved for the crem of the crop ships:

  • Thermopylae would get them
  • Valiant Class would get them.

Why just these two you ask? Well the Prophets wiki even says it: These tow are THE elite ships. They put the Orion to shame and working back in the kitchen (little woman joke there har har).

Plus the UNSC is of course a late game faction so you'd have these bad-boys later in the game, thus not making it OP because SMART players will eradicate the humans, or try to eradicate them before they get to the late game. Unless you're like a masochist or something. That way the UNSC gets a small edge because Sabers hurt a lot if used correctly.

 

 

Now for the Covenant again I really really really personally think the Covenant in the newer version of the game you guys and gals are making should make the C-S-O (the site calls it Plot Device abbreviation as a plot device) Super Carrier, the Titan for the Covenant. you obviously only get one but it would be kicking some tail and taking names. It might even be able to take on Infinity, maybe.

But also the Plot Device should get the bombard ability if possible, since it was recorded to be able to house an entire Army and take a planet by its lonesome if it wanted to (and AI willing of course) because that Redemption class? that thing is worthless pile of junk. It is NOT scary at all. I've played the UNSC and I've squashed several like bugs.

 

Plus the Infinity is the UNSC's "Big-Bad-Wolf". That big ship is supposed to be big, bad and blow your house down.

The Covenant needs a Big Bad Wolf as well, because the Redemption "super" destroyer, is like the Big Bad Puppy. It'll bark its annoying little whimpers at you, but is not the least threatening.

Its like walking down the street and you see Mickey Mouse with a gun. That is freaking hilarious. Because its like, "Honey I have have some Rat Poison, with your name on it and nothin you got, is gonna stop me."

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

Last but certainly the least, is the Covenant need a space defense weapon, because fighter Hangars is like England putting up their flood gates, hoping the water doesn't rise high enough to flood the town.

Heck why not give them glassing cannons? They had it in Halo 4: Escalation

678338A2-6170-47A5-B899-299774CD16E3_zps

 

Bu to make it fair, have their glassing cannon cost a lott of build space or "slots" so Covenant players could maybe build at least one to two depending on the location. Because as we all know, their Energy Projectors are even worse than the humans's SMAC guns, and even have better range too. So one or two tops would be a bit fair; just use fighters to blow them up or something. Because I do that to destroy SMACs. I have my fleet jump in, deploy fighters THEN I move my ships away as far as possible and have my fighters destroy the enemy guns, then my fleet turns around and mops up everything else; even back when I played as the UNSC. Just thought it'd be nice because did you want to play the Covenant and be about as stupid as Warhammer's Tau in Dawn of War?

 

"Oh look at us, we're blue hoofed aliens with bad Asian accents who excel at long range battle but we DON'T HAVE DEFENSE TURRETS" and those crisis suit guys cost a bundle so you're handicapping yourself. I played as the Imperial Guard and could basically walking into a Tau base, piss all over the place and no one could stop me. Then you'd have the Tau freaking the hell out and trying to scramble back to their base like the ai do in Company of Heroes. Its disgustingly funny.

 

Other than that, I think what you guys and gals are doing is great so far :)

What do you think?


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#2 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 11:36 PM

A couple responses.

No CCS glassing as hardcoding would make it immediately attack a planet and ignore ships.

As for the plot device. HELL NO! HOW MANY TIMES MUST THIS BE REITERATED?!
Besides, the covie ships are already powerful so the SD is only supposed to be a psuedo titan. (And it's still powerful, so it doesn't need to be threatening.)
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#3 TheHippie

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 11:43 PM

Nice to see another Covenant fan around, there seems to be a surplus of UNSC buffs and what I call "Infinikiddies" around. But the authors of the mod have addressed a few of these topics quite often in the past, like the Plot Device and the Covenant defense station, and they're pretty reasonable arguments.
I've already thrown my take on the two subjects around on the MODB page's comments a bit, based on what the mod team's stances on them.

 

 "Although I don't share the dev team's overall negative opinion on the Plot Device, I do agree it wouldn't fit well into the mod. Due to it's size, it would have to be scaled down, which in itself causes some issues with how the mod feels canon-wise, but even if it were down-sized, it would be far too similar to the Assault Carrier to distinguish itself in-game. It would cause both visual confusion and mechanic redundancy, as it would almost literally be an Assault Carrier but many times stronger. This would also cause a lot of severe balancing issues."

 

 

 "While the Covenant did have defense stations armed with Energy Projectors, the mod team has decided to go for an asymmetrical playstyle. The Covenant only have planetary defenses that can provide support, like hanger defenses, for their far more powerful ships to defend planets.
Giving the Covenant the same defenses as the UNSC would lead to a mass amount of balancing problems, especially considering those energy projector stations have been shown to be able to disable the Infinity with one or two blows."

 

 

I do however hope they do end up buffing up the Super-Destroyer to be the tank it was depicted as in the comics, but it sounds like it may stay as a sort of "Pseudo Titan" due to the Covenant's ships being generally superior. I'd like to see the defense station show up in someway too but the team seems to have their mind set on the matter.



#4 TheHippie

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:02 AM

A couple responses.

No CCS glassing as hardcoding would make it immediately attack a planet and ignore ships.

As for the Plot Device. HELL NO! HOW MANY TIMES MUST THIS BE REITERATED?!
Besides, the covie ships are already powerful so the SD is only supposed to be a psuedo titan. (And it's still powerful, so it doesn't need to be threatening.)

 

I recall some ships in Sins of a Galactic Empire having planetary bombardment as an ability to prevent it from being prioritized incorrectly. Is there a problem that prevents them from doing the same to the CSS and CPV?



#5 Whitehalomango

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:03 AM

You're suggesting the Plot Device? REALLY? Haven't you heard of the countless stories of peoples failed attempts at it? All the reasoning behind why it's not in the game? Oh, and just in case you haven't seen this, this is a major, game breaking reason. SIZE    

 

http://www.moddb.com...demand#imagebox

 

Glassing cannon? Why? The covenant aren't supposed to defend. THEY ATTACK. Plus, the cannon is incredibly strong and would have to be VERY expensive. So why bother building it? If you want to defend be the UNSC. Now the Pious should remain a colonizer in my opinion. The covies can't just have one colonizer and that being a capital. What if your all out of capital slots and want to colonize a planet you you need a DDS BUT YOU CAN'T. So you'll have to sacrifice one of your oh so precious capital ships.


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#6 Scorpii

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:26 AM

For future knowledge, if you have any questions just make sure to check the forums for similar asked questions BEFORE posting please :)


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#7 Azo 'Salcam

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:57 AM

You're suggesting the Plot Device? REALLY? Haven't you heard of the countless stories of peoples failed attempts at it? All the reasoning behind why it's not in the game? Oh, and just in case you haven't seen this, this is a major, game breaking reason. SIZE    

 

http://www.moddb.com...demand#imagebox

 

Glassing cannon? Why? The covenant aren't supposed to defend. THEY ATTACK. Plus, the cannon is incredibly strong and would have to be VERY expensive. So why bother building it? If you want to defend be the UNSC. Now the Pious should remain a colonizer in my opinion. The covies can't just have one colonizer and that being a capital. What if your all out of capital slots and want to colonize a planet you you need a DDS BUT YOU CAN'T. So you'll have to sacrifice one of your oh so precious capital ships.

I fail to see the problem with the larger super carrier. You UNSC boys are going to have a giant blow pipe of a ship in eventuality so...whats the problem other than the "balancing" issue?

 

*Edit*    and if you're concerned with the aliens kicking humanity's *** like it should have, then at least change the Redemption class's model because utilizing the Covenant At War Picket ship as a stand in? Its like trying to be scared of a puppy dog. Titans are supposed to be the "Big-Bad-Wolf" of whatever army you're using.

 

Like in Star Wars Requiem, the Imperial Super Star Destroyer was freaking Scary as hell. 

That's the goal of the titan: Its supposed to be scary because it WILL kick your butt. Or well its supposed to. Or am I wrong?


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#8 Sev

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 01:34 AM

Got a few problems with this.

 

1. The covenant CCS Battlecruiser shouldn't be able to bombard because otherwise the SDV will not be used by most players: Too weak, and most people don't use carriers. Thats the reason why I don't build the Athens (apart from the weak strike craft)

 

2. The pious, again, will not be used as much and it'll clash with the team's attempt at asymmetrical warfare. Just because the UNSC have one doesn't mean the covenant need one.

 

3. I think that adding the Sabers to those would take away the focus the UNSC has on its defenses, but I think that if it's only to one ship (the Valiant), then it would be ok. I go against the Thermopylae because of the sheer amount of fighters it spawns; it would take away the disadvantage that UNSC fighters are meant to have.

 

4. The Covenant Battleship is a much better choice then the Plot Device: its got a unique look (it doesn't look like it was ripped off from a CCS or CAS, or any other Covenant ship, and its got the size to make it intimidating), and its been proven to hold its own against entire UNSC fleets - just have a look at how much damage it did to Cole's fleet.

 

5. Again, takes away the asymmetrical warfare. Its basically the Covenant SMAC. Its not worth it. I stand by the team: the covenant worlds should be resourceful in nature.



#9 TheHippie

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 01:50 AM

I fail to see the problem with the larger super carrier. You UNSC boys are going to have a giant blow pipe of a ship in eventuality so...whats the problem other than the "balancing" issue?

 

*Edit*    and if you're concerned with the aliens kicking humanity's *** like it should have, then at least change the Redemption class's model because utilizing the Covenant At War Picket ship as a stand in? Its like trying to be scared of a puppy dog. Titans are supposed to be the "Big-Bad-Wolf" of whatever army you're using.

 

Like in Star Wars Requiem, the Imperial Super Star Destroyer was freaking Scary as hell. 

That's the goal of the titan: Its supposed to be scary because it WILL kick your butt. Or well its supposed to. Or am I wrong?

Although I would have enjoyed the plot device to appear in the mod in someway, it's simply too much trouble to throw in. The balance issues are one thing, but being game-breaking in size is a deal-breaker. The amount of weapons fire and squadrons the thing would be pelting out would likely insta-crash the game.

 

And I like the Super Destroyer, It just "Feels" right as the Covenant Titan, and IIRC someone here once said that they were considering changing it's size.

 

Super-destroyer2.jpg

 

Makes sense considering this, along with all the other shots of the ship, makes it look far larger than the UNSC's original estimate of 2,000 Meters.



#10 Crisiss

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 08:54 AM

Alright boys. Let's get this over with.

1. Pious is staying as is. No arguments to be made here, this is fact.

2. CCS has been considered for a bombardment ABILITY so that it will not fuck with the AI, I recall a couple of the devs saying yes but I cannot confirm that or whether it has plans to be implemented.

3. DDS is no longer the colony capital. It is now a full on assault ship with carrier capabilities and some nice weapons and shielding. Pheonix assault ship won't be changing AFAIK. It is keeping the Shiva launched, that is fact.

4. UNSC will NOT be receiving Sabre class orbital defense fighters for their ships. I'm going to let you read the name and then you can try and figure out why that is. UNSC is supposed to have inferior space fighters. The mod is asymmetrical, in case you haven't noticed yet.

5. No argument to be made here. Canada put it best: "It's a solid 29 kilometers of never-getting-in-this-goddamn-mod." Not happening. The Redemption is a good Covenant titan though I do think it should be moved down on the tech tree to make it more viable as a titan for balancing reasons (ie: when fleets aren't one shorting each other's capital ships) but that's about it. Redemption class is fine, the model is also not permanent, so it will look far better when it is done.

6. No jury rigged space lasers. This thing AFAIK wasn't a standardized piece of equipment, but capital ship weaponry strapped onto a space station. The Covenant is supposed to defend with it's fleets. Have you ever played Halo 2? Look at the opening cutscene. High Charity isnt guarded by orbital emplacements, but the biggest Covenant fleet one could ever be fucked enough to put their eyes on. The most they would ever get (if the mod team could be assed to do it) would be surface-to-orbit weaponry.

We done here or do I need to explain something else?
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#11 sloosecannon

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 09:28 AM

You UNSC boys are going to have a giant blow pipe of a ship in eventuality so...whats the problem other than the "balancing" issue?


Scale comparison:
Infinity:
-
CSΟ:
------

More here:
http://halo.bungie.o...readnoughtScale

Yes, that's right. The Infinity, the largest ship the UNSC has ever made, is about 1/5th of the size of the CSΟ. It is never going in, and attempts to convince otherwise are futile, and may lead to death due to Kraken Radiation. If you REALLY want it in, go mod it yourself. Have fun.
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#12 Unikraken

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 10:14 AM

so...whats the problem other than the "balancing" issue?

Balance is everything. SotP is designed to be fun for everyone, not just the folks who masturbate to Sangheili slashfiction on DeviantArt. SotP is intended to the a highly tactical strategic mod based on the Halo universe, not a fan service mod featuring every aspect of the Halo universe crammed improperly and haphazardly into it.


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#13 VDNKh

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 10:15 AM

I fail to see the problem with the larger super carrier. You UNSC boys are going to have a giant blow pipe of a ship in eventuality so...whats the problem other than the "balancing" issue?

 

Did you even read the ModDB link? Besides the gameplay balance, visual scaling, and lore issues we have with the Super Carrier, it also causes problems with the Sins engine itself because of how big it is.


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#14 Unikraken

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 11:19 AM

ARv5PaQ.jpg


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#15 Azo 'Salcam

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 11:32 AM

Its fine, I understand. you can go ahead and lock the thread. I don't really see a point of saying anything else on the matter. But thank you for listening. ^_^


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#16 Unikraken

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 11:37 AM

Its fine, I understand. you can go ahead and lock the thread. I don't really see a point of saying anything else on the matter. But thank you for listening. ^_^

We appreciate fan input, but the CSO is a long-settled issue...and our fans can be overzealous in expressing our stated frustrations with it.


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#17 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:23 PM

Yeah. I think I might be the biggest offender. http://i.imgur.com/P5BkZSzl.jpg
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#18 Crisiss

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:59 PM

@fleet & Uni

XsCydyA.jpg
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#19 Stephan-338

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 01:00 PM

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#20 Crisiss

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 01:03 PM

snip

See above image.

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