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#1 Solemn Penance

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 05:06 PM

I find in large maps and AI battles you tend to end up with more money then things to spend it on. I think adding new, 5-digit-expensive upgrades, etc. and also increasing the price on other things would let you keep advancing for longer. I was thinking that upping the price of the Autumn cruiser and Strident frigate (when it gets in the game) and other upgrades like the pacts and armor/hp/damage upgrades and/or putting them further up the upgrade chain (adding more possible labs) would be cool, and getting new sorts of planetary development upgrades like the social and industrial upgrades like the ones from the forbidden worlds dlc would add a bit more depth. I'd love to hear everyone's opinions on the topic.   


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#2 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 05:58 PM

Maybe in a mini-mod?
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#3 Sev

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 06:54 PM

Isn't the social and industrial upgrades already in? I've been using then for a while...

And the upgrade price for the Autumn class is a bit cheap, but I think the Autumn price should stay where it is - then it'll be too expensive to even be bothered to use. As long as it doesn't get spammed by AIs (like the one I've got this morning), then I'm happy.

As for more planet upgrades... I like the sound of that.
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#4 Solemn Penance

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 08:20 PM

I agree with you on the price thing, and I think having the Autumn further up the upgrade tree would be good because it's so powerful (for it's fleet cost), a bit too powerful for the point in the game where you can get it I think. Also (this is a minor thing), the canon says it was developed after the other ships in the mod, though thats probably not a big concern here


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#5 Sev

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:00 PM

That's what I'm saying. The research for it is in a position where its (relatively) easy to rush upgrades and unlock it early-game. That's what I always do when I play as the UNSC - rush to get the economic upgrades then the Autumn refit. Then I don't need to research other ships besides capitals as I can just steal them from my enemies. Not to mention it lasts longer than other capitals in combat.

 

Seriously, have you seen 2 autumn cruisers with Shivas and Spartan Boarding Parties early-game?



#6 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:19 PM

Yes. During entrenchment I had an entire fleet of Paris, Halcyon Refit, Vanguard, and CCS. I managed to fight normal aggressor to a standstill. (Nothing more, however, as I am not very good at this game.) 


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#7 SternuS

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 06:37 AM

I find in large maps and AI battles you tend to end up with more money then things to spend it on. 

Because it's in Large maps.

 

It really depends on how big is the map and what is your playstyle. Usually if you get to the point when you have a huge amount of resources and you have maxed out researches and fleet capacity, you'll have to sustain several stalemates that will dry your resources.

 

I think that multiplying the resource costs of researches would make small and medium-sized maps impossible/boring to play. You wouldn't get to use the Autumn (which is a pillar of UNSC fleet in mid-late game) and that's just terrible. Everyone who plays fast matches would lose interest in the game pretty quickly.


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#8 Aunt Gruntie

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 12:33 PM

You should try playing against people. Then suddenly all your old strategies are moot, and you have to constantly adapt to what your thinking enemy is doing.


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#9 Solemn Penance

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 02:46 PM

I think that multiplying the resource costs of researches would make small and medium-sized maps impossible/boring to play. You wouldn't get to use the Autumn (which is a pillar of UNSC fleet in mid-late game) and that's just terrible. Everyone who plays fast matches would lose interest in the game pretty quickly.

 

 

agreed, increasing the price might be unreasonable for the Autumn, but I was thinking some of the other upgrades like the AI damage-increasing ones and the armor and hp increasing ones would be good if the either a) there were more of them (they increased their respective stats in smaller increments) or b- make them more expensive. I think this would fluff out the upgrade tree a little more and make sense because those upgrades can make Paris frigates be just as tough (hitpoints) as un-upgraded Thanatos/Halberd destroyers

 

I can't speak for the multiplayer (P v. P)  because I have a poor internet connection that crashes all the time :(


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#10 Unikraken

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 10:57 PM

In general, the team has come to feel that SoaSE is a really poor 4X game (still a great game overall, just poor as a 4X), and we are sort of moving towards removing the clunky functionality that breaks away from being a straight up RTS. Each release you've seen that progress as we start pulling out the pieces we like the least. The last real big chunk was culture, which was very controversial to the fans, but hasn't caused an uprising so it seems to have been the right choice.

 

Long elaborate research chains are a mess to try to balance and take a very long time to plan out and implement. Research is such a boring and tedious part of SoaSE modding that many coders will flat out refuse to touch it. We feel that moving closer to linear research that is more akin to traditional RTS gameplay is the better choice for a fast paced mod like ours. We're putting a lot of thought into this next release and we're distancing ourselves from the generic soase mod approach that has been our modus operandi in the past, like many other mods.


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#11 Solemn Penance

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 02:11 PM

Fair enough, I see your point. I was just thinking that maybe having some unique (and very expensive) upgrades would give the player something particularly distant to strive for,which I think would be good, but I see the reasoning behind why this would be tough to balance.

 

However I think that planets would benefit from getting some more upgrades (and it wouldn't be quite so hard to balance), just so when you have a big empire colonizing another planet would be more then just clicking the same  2 or 3 buttons. Though i agree with Unikraken's statements and I'm guessing my perspective (just vs. AI) is different then most other players'. Either way, more ideas are welcome.


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#12 Crisiss

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 02:36 PM

Pre war - mid war -end war - post war techs that do EVERYTHING for you in stages? Just make them expensive and take a couple minutes to research?

Would break down the research meta game massively.

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#13 Unikraken

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 05:47 PM

Crisiss, a new plan for research is being formulated right now. You'll be brought up to speed in the next few days.

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#14 Delyruin

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 01:05 AM

To be honest I'm still personally sad how the lack of culture kinda fucks your outer planets in various ways. But it won't make me not play SotP and I'm just a lowly peasant.



#15 Whitehalomango

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 01:19 AM

But it kinda makes sense. During the war, all the outer colonies were much worse places to live than the inner ones. There were also more insurrectionists out there, which is displayed in the game through culture/influence reach. Although this would only really work for the UNSC but I suppose the same rule could apply to the Covenant. I'm only guesses at this, I'm not entirely sure why the whole culture ditch but this is my reason, along with it makes the gameplay more fast paced, which is probably the main reason. Plus you didn't see UNSC culture stations around the place during the war now did you?


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#16 Crisiss

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 03:47 AM

But it kinda makes sense. During the war, all the outer colonies were much worse places to live than the inner ones. There were also more insurrectionists out there, which is displayed in the game through culture/influence reach. Although this would only really work for the UNSC but I suppose the same rule could apply to the Covenant. I'm only guesses at this, I'm not entirely sure why the whole culture ditch but this is my reason, along with it makes the gameplay more fast paced, which is probably the main reason. Plus you didn't see UNSC culture stations around the place during the war now did you?

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how you're going to flip a whole bunch of elite zealots to humanity's side all of the sudden or vice versa (yeah I don't need your fan theories I know there are innies but the ones that flip are plot devices). That and culture rape was just stupid. The game is about blowing the other guy up, not having his blue jeans and pop music manipulate your population.
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#17 Zero

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:05 PM

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how you're going to flip a whole bunch of elite zealots to humanity's side all of the sudden or vice versa (yeah I don't need your fan theories I know there are innies but the ones that flip are plot devices). That and culture rape was just stupid. The game is about blowing the other guy up, not having his blue jeans and pop music manipulate your population.


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#18 Solemn Penance

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:58 AM

What about switching the Charon with the Paris in the research tree? Would make people use the Charon at least a little bit more and give it a little more of a role besides bombing, because honestly I never actually have the Charon in my fleets, I just send them in once the enemy planets' gravity well is secure because they just die if I do use them as part of my combat fleet


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#19 WarthogRacingMan3

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:45 PM

What about switching the Charon with the Paris in the research tree? Would make people use the Charon at least a little bit more and give it a little more of a role besides bombing, because honestly I never actually have the Charon in my fleets, I just send them in once the enemy planets' gravity well is secure because they just die if I do use them as part of my combat fleet

I use about 40 Charons in my combat fleet, they seem to survive okay. The Paris class on the other hand...


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#20 Solemn Penance

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 08:33 PM

really? dude. mine just die


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