20 replies to this topic

[princeofdolalmroth]

I've provided some constructive criticism in the past, and I think it's worked for the best in some regards. Personally, I think this mod is the most accurate, most engaging, and most realistic (by universe standards) mod for a game to depict the Halo Universe I've ever seen. I had a few points I wanted to quip on1. Covenant ships should have differing ways to seige planets. I mean by that is some, like the SDV Corvettes from Reach, Should have dropship particle effects, but not with an escort for them.2. UNSC fleets in the latest stage of the game (Right when the player or AI has most, if not all of the upgrades for the fleet) are overwhealmingly broken. Canonically, it makes sense, and it will in-game, but it makes playing as the covenant all the harder to do since most covenant ships excluding the Titan and some of the capitals have very low Alpha Damage. and the UNSC having that Alpha damage in their MAC cannons makes it broken when the reload times for a shot to be fired is cut into fractions of its original time.

In addition, the timeframe to fire off another round shouldn't be able to significantly change until reactor bonuses are researched. Canonically it makes more sense since the Reactors on any UNSC ship provide power to the MAC cannons, and the higher abilities of better reactors leads to a drastic cut into how long it would take for any ship to fire. Case in point with an Autumn compared to it's base design. The Autumn, with better reactors, can put out something like 15-20 shots more than the Halcyon because of the overhaul to its reactor systems, and the change into how the gun fires, with each shot having 55-70% of the damage of one Halcyon round, but with three shots fired puts out even more Alpha damage per shot.

Then we move over to the Covenant, which in-game can't take on a mid-game balanced UNSC fleet with any kind of consistancy because of the low Alpha damage. Canonically, it isn't true. The CCS-class was capable of crippling a frigate with one plasma round, and a destroyer in a few. smaller Covenant ships are an even match for frigates because of the limited armament of their designs, but the much larger ships (Destroyer-sized and above), should be destroying UNSC ships left and right, but they just aren't when fighting a competent UNSC player. Against AI they do Moderately well, but when My fleets come in, they end up completely destroyed in short order, and I regularily play on Legendary.

3. If the Forerunners are a DLC expansion only, and not ingrained as playable in the game proper, I don't have a problem with it, but it won't make any sense if they are in the game proper. The only real presence the Forerunners had in the Universe Circa 98,000BCE-2556CE was in sentinel Automatons and maybe automated ships, but we would know if the Forerunners had even that if the comics, games and books didn't keep a consistent position about them until 2557, when the Promethean Automatons enter the stage. No forerunner ships yet, other than Mantle's Approach, are active still, and the Approach was destroyed in relatively short order. If we were to assume that an entire faction could be gleamed out of them, then that's a monumental task in itself, since there would be no basis for certain ship designs like carriers, Destroyers or frigates without making them unplayable out of sheer ease of ass-whupperey. some designs mentioned in-books are well over 15 kilometers long. if you did have a good amount of ships for the forerunners, how powerful would they be compared to their UNSC or covenant counterparts. would Low alpha and Good armor and HP be the balance, or High Cost, both resource-wise, and fleet-pointwise outweigh the Hp, Shields, Damage Output, and Armour? Then there's PVP. Would it be fair if someone with the forerunners plays against A UNSC or Covenant opponent and the latter two are just incapable of winning not out of their own skill, but because the deck is stacked against them? These are points that have to be considered now or in-future concerning them.


Concerning the mod and how it's coming along, what do you think should be and what shouldn't be changed given the current meta and balancings?

[Unikraken]

I will try to address this later tonight.

[kungpow7]

Can't wait for the Unikraken's response.

[SiRD31M0S]

You seem to be rather obsessed with the canon. Sometimes canon has to be sacrificed for balanced gameplay, and when it isn't balanced, that's what playtesters are for; to help find a reasonable balance.

 

 

If the Forerunners are a DLC expansion only

The day mods have DLC is the day I fucking kill myself.

[Unikraken]

I've provided some constructive criticism in the past, and I think it's worked for the best in some regards. Personally, I think this mod is the most accurate, most engaging, and most realistic (by universe standards) mod for a game to depict the Halo Universe I've ever seen. I had a few points I wanted to quip on
1. Covenant ships should have differing ways to seige planets. I mean by that is some, like the SDV Corvettes from Reach, Should have dropship particle effects, but not with an escort for them.2. UNSC fleets in the latest stage of the game (Right when the player or AI has most, if not all of the upgrades for the fleet) are overwhealmingly broken. Canonically, it makes sense, and it will in-game, but it makes playing as the covenant all the harder to do since most covenant ships excluding the Titan and some of the capitals have very low Alpha Damage. and the UNSC having that Alpha damage in their MAC cannons makes it broken when the reload times for a shot to be fired is cut into fractions of its original time.

Covenant ships will have differing invasion effects. Some have heavy variants that include escorts while others do not. Some will fire down plasma instead of ships. I'm going to refrain from discussing balance about a build of the mod from last July, you'll have to excuse me on that.

In addition, the timeframe to fire off another round shouldn't be able to significantly change until reactor bonuses are researched. Canonically it makes more sense since the Reactors on any UNSC ship provide power to the MAC cannons, and the higher abilities of better reactors leads to a drastic cut into how long it would take for any ship to fire. Case in point with an Autumn compared to it's base design. The Autumn, with better reactors, can put out something like 15-20 shots more than the Halcyon because of the overhaul to its reactor systems, and the change into how the gun fires, with each shot having 55-70% of the damage of one Halcyon round, but with three shots fired puts out even more Alpha damage per shot.

The term reactor shouldn't be taken too seriously, as we've basically renamed the base game's anti-matter stores. Abilities rely on this and tying too many kinds of research together to require for upgrades can actually break the game Ai.

Then we move over to the Covenant, which in-game can't take on a mid-game balanced UNSC fleet with any kind of consistancy because of the low Alpha damage. Canonically, it isn't true. The CCS-class was capable of crippling a frigate with one plasma round, and a destroyer in a few. smaller Covenant ships are an even match for frigates because of the limited armament of their designs, but the much larger ships (Destroyer-sized and above), should be destroying UNSC ships left and right, but they just aren't when fighting a competent UNSC player. Against AI they do Moderately well, but when My fleets come in, they end up completely destroyed in short order, and I regularily play on Legendary.

We absolutely have to break from canon on many occasions with ships due to how the game's Ai behave regarding certain roles and abilities. Case in point: the faction would completely break if every ship that can bomb planets could in the mod. SotP is balance act between what we want to do and what the game can handle. Modding capability is surprisingly limited.

3. If the Forerunners are a DLC expansion only, and not ingrained as playable in the game proper, I don't have a problem with it, but it won't make any sense if they are in the game proper. The only real presence the Forerunners had in the Universe Circa 98,000BCE-2556CE was in sentinel Automatons and maybe automated ships, but we would know if the Forerunners had even that if the comics, games and books didn't keep a consistent position about them until 2557, when the Promethean Automatons enter the stage. No forerunner ships yet, other than Mantle's Approach, are active still, and the Approach was destroyed in relatively short order. If we were to assume that an entire faction could be gleamed out of them, then that's a monumental task in itself, since there would be no basis for certain ship designs like carriers, Destroyers or frigates without making them unplayable out of sheer ease of ass-whupperey. some designs mentioned in-books are well over 15 kilometers long. if you did have a good amount of ships for the forerunners, how powerful would they be compared to their UNSC or covenant counterparts. would Low alpha and Good armor and HP be the balance, or High Cost, both resource-wise, and fleet-pointwise outweigh the Hp, Shields, Damage Output, and Armour? Then there's PVP. Would it be fair if someone with the forerunners plays against A UNSC or Covenant opponent and the latter two are just incapable of winning not out of their own skill, but because the deck is stacked against them? These are points that have to be considered now or in-future concerning them.

The Forerunner Remnant (the name is important here, context clues) will be an expansion that you have to enable in addition to the base mod. SotP's focus will always be UNSC vs Covenant. Forerunners will just be the icing on the cake. The Forerunner Remnant will not be the Forerunner empire that committed mass suicide 100,000 years ago. More to come on specifics later, but they WILL be balanced against the other factions. Our explanation for why will make sense to any lore fan. There will be accompanying media that will explain why they've shown up and how and most importantly why they are not effectively gods walking among insects. Discussing that openly now would only take attention away from the more important part of this project, so we're refraining from doing that until focus shifts over that way. We can't bring the Forerunners to life until we have solid UNSC vs Covenant gameplay and all their assets finished.

[Idio]

I'd like to mention you're a playtester: Many of these issues/criticisms have been met with changes, improvements, and additional features. You'd be better off posting this in the playtest threads so that the devs/other playtesters can respond in kind, without ya'know, spreading news that we shouldn't be spreading. 

 

The shiny and fancy's all nice, and I think you need to experience it for yourself, with your fellow playtesters-- Like me, for example!

[Unikraken]

He wasn't a tester when the post was made.

[Idio]

He wasn't a tester when the post was made.

Yup, I know, I had seen the thread earlier in the day, before he was instated as a playtester; then I incidentally waited for your response. It'd be best if he moved this thread over to the playtester general thread, and then let there be a more involved response from playtesters, ect.

[Unikraken]

Yup, I know, I had seen the thread earlier in the day, before he was instated as a playtester; then I incidentally waited for your response. It'd be best if he moved this thread over to the playtester general thread, and then let there be a more involved response from playtesters, ect.

Well, most of his criticism is well known as of about August of last year, so it's mostly just another confirmation. I imagine the thread will die once we're done talking.

[베이클라이트]

Well, most of his criticism is well known as of about August of last year, so it's mostly just another confirmation. I imagine the thread will die once we're done talking.

Unlessss sssssomeone would necro it sssss. Kididng I at least won't do that not sure about agig though.

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

Unlessss sssssomeone would necro it sssss. Kididng I at least own't do that not sure about agig though.

Whatever could you possibly mean?

[Lavo]

If I get to it quickly enough I have a KOS policy for necros. Zombies be gone!

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

If I get to it quickly enough I have a KOS policy for necros. Zombies be gone!

You can't stop me!

 

Don't hurt me oh great modder.

[Lavo]

You can't stop me!

 

Don't hurt me oh great modder.

You're right, I can't. But I can hand you over to the Kraken; I hear he hungers for new souls to devour...

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

You're right, I can't. But I can hand you over to the Kraken; I hear he hungers for new souls to devour...

 

Meh. He devoured my soul long ago.

[Mrripley9]

Meh. He devoured my soul long ago.

>Implying you had one to begin with.

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

>Implying you had one to begin with.

Are you calling me Ginger?

[MrChipps]

Are you calling me Ginger?

Worse, he's calling you a "agigabyte", the most dreadfull of all the pre-teens listed in the bestiary

EDIT: Sorry, too much Witcher 3

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

pre-teen

Wrong. You meant to call me the worst of the teenagers.

[MrChipps]

Wrong. You meant to call me the worst of the teenagers.

Nope