35 replies to this topic

[Julian_2185]

Just as a matter of thought...

 

I really like the look of the Insurrectionist ships in this mod, and I was wondering if those could be reintegrated into the main UNSC faction.

 

As a general rule, I always like more fleet variety, and the Insurrectionist ships feel as though they could fill some useful early-game niches. Specifically:

 

1. The Eion Carrier: It's always bothered me some how the UNSC have no mainstream fleet support until Tier 4, and I really like the look of the Eion. I think that it could be really useful to have as a Tier 2 or 3 ship, with the Athens bumped up to 5 for balance's sake. It would fill the niche of a small escort carrier, taking up 12 or 14 fleet slots and packing 2 squadrons of aircraft, with much more limited offensive capability than the Athens. Not sure how to price it cost-wise.

 

(On a general balance note, can we bump up the price on the Athens a little? It's easy to pump out a lot of those things very quickly, and they're comfortably the UNSC's best non-capital ship.)

 

2. The Mako Corvette: I really like this adorable little ship. I think it could fill a nice Tier 1 niche somewhere - a light, fast and cheap offensive ship that can be easily deployed in large numbers. Have it take up 5 fleet and make it faster than most anything else in the fleet, and ensure that it's lightly-armed (ideally, the only ship in the fleet without a MAC). Basically, something to deploy to fill out alongside your Paris frigates when you're rushing planets. Also, for preference, have it move like Corvettes do in Rebellion, although I do remember hearing that there are some bugs with that in SOTP.

 

Otherwise, great mod! I'm loving the current state of balance, especially the DPS numbers - it means that you really have to be tactical in how you fight. My only real request would be to give the Covenant some way of dealing with ODPs - a properly-fortified UNSC planet is basically invulnerable, in my experience. That, or make the ODPs even more prohibitively expensive than they are (and maybe have them take up more than 1 tactical slot? At this point, I can comfortably put ~15 ODPs facing one phase lane, and that's a damned intimidating sight).

 

Thoughts generally, everyone?

[MrChipps]

The public build is woefully out of date, as I understand it the Athens is completely out from the UNSC faction and replaced by the Eion in the next release. The change in carriers and the occlusion of the Mako is motivated canonwise by the old age of said ships and gameplaywise by the overlap of ship roles in the game. The Eion and Athens overlap in the role of carriers, the Mako overlaps with the Stalwart in the role of point defence.

 

Any dev feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

[Julian_2185]

Huh, swapping out the Athens for the Eion?

 

I like both ships, so I'm a little puzzled, although I don't particularly mind either way.

 

Also, I much prefer the looks of the Mako to the Stalwart, which looks (to me) identical to the other two UNSC frigates. That's just my opinion, though.

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

There are already 2 carrier caps and a single carrier cruiser, and there's no reason for another carrier. I personally prefer the Athens, but the Eion is newer and makes more sense lore wise. ;_;

[Solemn Penance]

I agree that the model for the Mako is more original then the Stalwart's, but I prefer the Stalwart because it's tougher and and its MAC can do ship-to-ship therefore making it much more useful on the front lines. I also don't agree with you on the matter of upping the price on the Athens. Yes it's well armed, but I usually find that having them at the front of my fleet just ends up getting them all killed because they're so fragile. I'm excited to see how the Eion will differ from it. 

[KillerKommander]

Regarding ODPs, even a fully forted UNSC planet can be beaten if you use Covenant ships to full capacity.  The only time I actually have too serious of an issue is when a player has access to additional mine slots due the planet being a Fortress world or the like. 

 

But to beating them, there are various strategies depending on how far in the game you are. Late game, while there may be 15 ODPs, swarming them with smaller, less valuable worships can be effective at taking them out, keeping heavy capitals and cruisers back to provide fighter support. Mid Game, seraph spam can be effective. Even sabres will succumb to a few DDS carrier's worth of fighters and bombers and ODPs have no defence against them. 

 

Personally, I find ODPs are perfectly fine as they are. Without the appropriate fighter support, they are utterly useless, meaning you can't just spam ODPs, but too little means they can't deal with enemy fleets making them ineffective.  

 

Regarding the Mako-class corvette, wasn't it outdated by the star of the Human-Covenant War?  And I'm sure I read somewhere that Innsurrectionists made use of the ship. I find it makes perfect sense for it to be an innie ship and the UNSC to use the more heavily armed and armoured Stalwart class Frigate, which could use it's MAC and Archer Pods against Covenant warships while providing AAA Support. 

[SternuS]

Regarding the Eion-Athens switch, the original discussion can be found here:

 

https://sinsofthepro...athens/?p=48499

 

Regarding the Mako: honestly, a combat vessel without a MAC, against the Covenant, is laughably useful. Considering not even a nuke destroyed a shield-less ship at the beginning of the war (TFoR book), there's no reason the UNSC would've kept the Mako in this stage of the conflict (the time this mod takes place). The Stalwart completes the roster of UNSC's frigate, and is quite, quite more useful than the Mako, and much more pleasant to look at.

 

For the Covenant, we're (they're) discussing wether to give them some sort of ODP, or to keep a more fleet-mobilizing kind of defense. I'm in favor of the latter.

The SMACs have been nerfed quite a bit lately: IIRC, firing is disabled for the first 500 seconds "some" seconds, and the range has been decreased. Furthermore, as someone already said, they're useless without AA ships.

My suggestion would be, as a Covenant player, to bring a couple DDS to the gravity well, keep them out of range, and send out the bombers to take them down. SDVs are also quite useful, with their carrier capacity and easy replacement.

[Riftis]

I like both the Eion and the Athens.

 

In the current public build the Athens performs more like a capital carrier anyway so it would be cool to see it as a capital carrier while the Eion takes its place in the frigate section. The UNSC lacks an affordable carrier capital, obviously there's the Thermopylae, but it is very expensive to build and can't be deployed wastefully, plus the Fleet Command buff and it's high DPS and hull definitely favour it operating within fleet rather than hanging back, sniping with its MAC and letting it's Longswords do the work (although if you're feeling particularly crazy I guess you can use a Phoenix as a stand in carrier due to it's higher than average fighter count).

 

Up the cost for the Athens and increase the amount of squadrons it can support at base and/or through leveling and give it abilities like rapid manufacturing, Adept Drone Anima (base Sins, Halcyon carrier) or Heavy Strike Craft (base Sins, Sova Carrier) or perhaps a unique support ability. I don't think DPS or hull would need to be rebalanced for it to be viable.

 

 

I also really like the Mako design but I don't think anyone could find a convincing argument for keeping that one in the UNSC roster against how powerful Covenant ships are! It's really rare among miltia fleets though I've noticed, I've only seen a couple of Makos and I've put a lot of hours into games, not sure if that's just luck though.

[Sev]

Tbh I never used the Athens that much. I always ended up using the phoenix because, at Level 3, it has the same amount of strike craft as an Athens, on a more durable and better armed ship (at the same fleet supply as well).

With the Eion coming in though, I might start using them because of their lower fleet supply.

What I don't understand is why the Mako is so rare. I thought it was only retired thanks to a mechanical problem.

[MrChipps]

The Mako was retired due to its very old age and very obselete design(no mac) making it completely ineffectice against the Covenant.

[Crisiss]

Balance has been completely redone. The public version is horribly out of date at the moment.

1. Been switched. See Sternus's comment.

2. No.

ODPs are incredibly easy to take down. Very fragile and their range sucks ass now thanks to people complaining about SMAC walls that they suicide run into and then bitch about them being OP. Use bombers or the Adjudicator or the Orion, both of which outrange SMACs.

Sternus, I hope that was a typo because 5000 seconds comes out to about 83 minutes.

[SternuS]

Sternus, I hope that was a typo because 5000 seconds comes out to about 83 minutes.

Whoopsy, good catch on that.

 

Wait, so even 500 seconds sounds like a lot...even though I could remember something of the sort.

[Crisiss]

Whoopsy, good catch on that.
 
Wait, so even 500 seconds sounds like a lot...even though I could remember something of the sort.

IIRC it was 3 mins, may have have been bumped to 5.

[Prone-To-Post]

Either increasing the time between shots or increasing the tactical slot cost of SMACs might make sense.

[The]

Either increasing the time between shots or increasing the tactical slot cost of SMACs might make sense.

No one likes your necroposting.

[Unikraken]

Either increasing the time between shots or increasing the tactical slot cost of SMACs might make sense.

 

> Name is Prone-To-Post

> Has 4 posts in 13 months

[cagywhiterino]

Heyy guys, so I was playing the game (of course) and I came across a ship named Mother Of Invention (I get the reference) but didn't get enough of a glance at it before my ships rekt it's shit up. Was it a frigate or just a regular capital ship and I'm just an idiot?

[베이클라이트]

Was it a frigate or just a regular capital ship and I'm just an idiot?

it was the Mother of Invention.

[SternuS]

Was it a frigate or just a regular capital ship and I'm just an idiot?

It was a Frigate and a Capital Ship. The rest...you said it.

[cagywhiterino]

It was a Frigate and a Capital Ship. The rest...you said it.

thank you for
Giving me an
Actual answer unlike someone...