10 replies to this topic

[my_own_deity]

                First of all I love the difficulty of the flood and i'm not suggesting that get changed. However the tactics to defeat them revolve entirely around 3 units in the public build and I would imagine 5 in the dev build, at least until the day forerunners get implemented (far away and unrelated).

 

        As UNSC you essentially get your econ rolling and then turtle up with anchors and stalwarts at your border planets, and eventually you make an entire fleet of stalwarts and steamroll the flood planet.

         Covenant the tactic is largely the same just substitute in pickets and salvation's.

 

       I would imagine both factions titans will inherit the salvation's immunity to flood control which is great now we can use a grand total of 5 ships. So what i'm proposing is when the strident gets released give it the immunity perk which lore wise would work (built post war when spartan's were readily available plus being tied to the infinity which was jam packed with spartans) plus energy shielding (as far as i know shields conferred immunity to flood infection until they were depleted(think elites in halo 3) this would give each faction 3 ships that could be used against the flood. 

 

       Another possible idea would be a timer upon infection to scuttle larger ships(cole protocol, pillar of autumn detonation,etc...) I mean in a ship as large as the Thermopylae you would think at-least one person or at the very least the ai would think to damage critical systems the flood might be fast but the instant assilimation of 1000's of people on such a large vessel is highly unlikely.

 

       Finally on the flood side of things i loved the addition of the pure form carrier and the planet guardians are nice to. actually i think the flood are fine unless it would be possible to implement a gravemind as a titan of sorts or possibly a starbase for the flood planet. maybe even a mere defensive structure (prevent warping out or increase charge speed due to mental influence) 

 

     The mods Great looking forward to whatever you do but these are a few additions which i think would allow for more versatility when fighting the flood. as far as I know they are within the limits of the sins engine and would fit lorewise and be balanced.                       

 

 

(if these changes are incredibly unlikely to happen could someone give me pointers on how to give the salvations immunity perk to other ships?)

[SternuS]

   

        As UNSC you essentially get your econ rolling and then turtle up with anchors and stalwarts at your border planets, and eventually you make an entire fleet of stalwarts and steamroll the flood planet.

Trust me, it did not end well the first time.

Spoiler

And those were a lot of Stalwarts, there were many more after I took the screenshot

A fleet of Stalwarts doesn't steamroll the flood planet. At all. Or, that was when I last fought the flood. Might be different for the public build.

 

The timer on ships was a matter of discussion, and it has already been deemed hardcoded. (or for some reason discarded, if it wasn't a hardcoding problem, which I'm quite sure it was)

 

I could, in some way, understand adding the Gravemind as a Starbase or defensive structure (but wouldn't support the idea), but...a TITAN? That's a high level of sadism right there. I mean, I haven't fought the flood in a month, but last time I checked, they were quite nigh impossible to beat.

[Daringpear]

Giving 10 guardians to the flood is not fair at all! (unless you manage to capture some with Autumn's) Also, what's with the pure flood ships I see around? How are they different game-wise from gaurdians? They have a cool model, but you rarely see them. I think they should always be used in lieu of guardians. (Or a mix of guardians/pures)

[SiRD31M0S]

I could, in some way, understand adding the Gravemind as a Starbase or defensive structure

It's a good thing you can, because I can't. They're basically just biological super-computers. I dunno what the benefit of having them on a station would be, especially for such an almighty force as the Flood.

[my_own_deity]

@S F I R "maybe even a mere defensive structure (prevent warping out or increase charge speed due to mental influence)" This could be the benefit of a gravemind for the flood or maybe give it global benefits for the flood ie strike craft rebuild speed or something of that nature. And @SternuS that's part of what i'm getting at there's no strategy for the flood you just pack a ton of your chosen races anti fighter frigate into a swarm and rush the flood planet while hoping for the best. When i did it as the UNSC it was with maxed research and an entire fleet of them minus a few ships in the adjacent planet to attack the planet itself while the stalwarts fought the guardians, so yes it wasn't exactly a steamroll but it was a victory that had no strategy except build massive amounts of the one ship that's a viable counter to the flood and cross your fingers. which is what i'm getting at while the flood should be nigh impossible to beat conventionally you should be allowed to use a little more strategy than build hundreds of one single type of ship and hope for the best, i'm sure having the infinity will help with this but to me the strident's will also be a good fit and would allow me to have a little strategy (warp in stalwart swarm to screen the infection pods whilst the infinity and strident's pick at the guardian cruisers then warp in a few planetary attack vessels to cleanse the planet. With the covenant its vastly easier just build a full fleet of salvation's and pickets then warp them in while ultimately you lose about 40% of the pickets to infection i generally have success cleansing the planet with the covenant a full fleet of salvation's at max research is viable against the forerunner ships even though i do normally take losses. It's just a matter of opinion i would love to see more than one viable strategy for each faction when it comes to the flood, by all means keep them difficult if anything add some more unique flood forms that we have to fight but having more than an anti fighter frigate with which to fight them would be a godsend in my opinion. Although it seems to favor the players and like it would cheapen the flood this literally requires the cooperation of everyone in the match to pull off. Keep in mind the ancient humans had almost destroyed the flood and if not for conflict with the forerunners they would have. so yes one player should never be able to defeat the them but a unified galaxy should totally have a chance.  

 

Ps: Going to try and get some screenshots of me capturing the flood planet again, would be great if i could get someone to hop in game with me on the public build as the ai makes it rather hard to do (swarms of your allies ships attacking you rarely turns out good)

pss: sorry for the gigantic text blob

[cagywhiterino]

I took a flood planet very easily with stalwarts and Athens, I like the little Easter egg when you capture one

[SternuS]

@S F I R "maybe even a mere defensive structure (prevent warping out or increase charge speed due to mental influence)" This could be the benefit of a gravemind for the flood or maybe give it global benefits for the flood ie strike craft rebuild speed or something of that nature. And @SternuS that's part of what i'm getting at there's no strategy for the flood you just pack a ton of your chosen races anti fighter frigate into a swarm and rush the flood planet while hoping for the best. When i did it as the UNSC it was with maxed research and an entire fleet of them minus a few ships in the adjacent planet to attack the planet itself while the stalwarts fought the guardians, so yes it wasn't exactly a steamroll but it was a victory that had no strategy except build massive amounts of the one ship that's a viable counter to the flood and cross your fingers. which is what i'm getting at while the flood should be nigh impossible to beat conventionally you should be allowed to use a little more strategy than build hundreds of one single type of ship and hope for the best, i'm sure having the infinity will help with this but to me the strident's will also be a good fit and would allow me to have a little strategy (warp in stalwart swarm to screen the infection pods whilst the infinity and strident's pick at the guardian cruisers then warp in a few planetary attack vessels to cleanse the planet. With the covenant its vastly easier just build a full fleet of salvation's and pickets then warp them in while ultimately you lose about 40% of the pickets to infection i generally have success cleansing the planet with the covenant a full fleet of salvation's at max research is viable against the forerunner ships even though i do normally take losses. It's just a matter of opinion i would love to see more than one viable strategy for each faction when it comes to the flood, by all means keep them difficult if anything add some more unique flood forms that we have to fight but having more than an anti fighter frigate with which to fight them would be a godsend in my opinion. Although it seems to favor the players and like it would cheapen the flood this literally requires the cooperation of everyone in the match to pull off. Keep in mind the ancient humans had almost destroyed the flood and if not for conflict with the forerunners they would have. so yes one player should never be able to defeat the them but a unified galaxy should totally have a chance.  

 

Ps: Going to try and get some screenshots of me capturing the flood planet again, would be great if i could get someone to hop in game with me on the public build as the ai makes it rather hard to do (swarms of your allies ships attacking you rarely turns out good)

pss: sorry for the gigantic text blob

Indeed that would be a good strategy. But I can't see how adding a Titan to them would have any benefit on our strategy. You've basically described how a player captures the flood world; but you can't direct your forces there if you're stuck trying to survive the infinite swarm of flood infection pods that keep coming to your planets. And adding a Titan to that swarm seems really illogical.

 

It's a good thing you can, because I can't. They're basically just biological super-computers. I dunno what the benefit of having them on a station would be, especially for such an almighty force as the Flood.

I could see it mainly as an interesting particular, only as a scenario type of particle. Not going to thread the bonus/malus discussion, for I have no idea how to implement that.

[my_own_deity]

         That's the thing the titan's would more than likely have an immunity to flood infection like the salvation does (flood are highly unlikely to take over a ship full of spartan's or elite honor guards), it's not necessarily to make things easier more to allow a little variety to fleet composition. Again with the gravemind I could see it going a number of ways. For another way to use it the way the pirates in sins work is escalating difficulty so you start at the feral stage a few infected flood ships. then say after 30 minutes or some amount of time or bounty cycles the pirates (flood escalate) in the floods case this could be where the gravemind is implemented as either a station with global bonuses, or possible even as a shipyard for pure form flood ships if we ever get more of those. In the lore the flood only created pure forms when a gravemind or keymind was present. could be an interesting mechanic. more for intrigue and content than actual gameplay reasons even though being able to take out the gravemind and have it negativly effect the flood in some way or revert them back to only using ships they infect could be an interesting mechanic. 

 

       The main thing i hope people are able to get out of this thread is it would be nice to have atleast 3 ships per faction that are viable against the flood. even if its just someone teaching me how to give ships perks for myself, I like diversity in my fleets instead of massive blobs of one thing and i would imagine i'm not the only one who would like a bit of variety. As for the gravemind thing that's literally just ideas about a possible way to implement one if the flood ever gets more fleshed out. 

[Aunt Gruntie]

Atm the Carrier forms act as a sort of grave mind. When first jump in, they issue an explore command to all flood ships (including the guardians). The only way flood ships will move to another planet is if the Carrier issues the explore command to them.

[Daringpear]

Atm the Carrier forms act as a sort of grave mind. When first jump in, they issue an explore command to all flood ships (including the guardians). The only way flood ships will move to another planet is if the Carrier issues the explore command to them.

 

 

Oh, that makes sense. To me, it seems they are about as tough to defeat as a guardian. (I dont know the actual stats) They could easily replace them in defense of the flood home planet. Considering the quality of the model, and that many people dont often play with flood enabled, I think it would be a good idea to have both Carriers and Guardians spawn at the home planet for defense.

[my_own_deity]

              The carriers opposed to guardians would make a bit more sense seeing how the flood all but died out when there were still forerunner ships for the taking.