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SotP v. Alpha 0.75.1 | My Feedback and Suggestions


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#1 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:41 AM

Just as Unikraken asked,  here you can find all my feedback notes.

So, before Stridents entered service, I suppose that I can help you to fix some most notable problems by pointing at them... Anyway I have no time to something more serious than filling in this blocknote. So, I hope you'll find some time to fix at least some part of notes  below... Before you will go dark till next release.

 

First of all, I must apologize for all... difficult moments in my text below. English is not my native language, but I'm working on it. If there will be something unclear or clearly wrong in my words, please, tell me and I'll try to correct it.

 

Following material regarding  version Alpha 0.75.1.

 

The UNSC

 

I.  UNSC Main Balance Objections

 

 

 

The faction is more interesting now, and ideas of Alpha Damage strategy and fleet micro control are amazing. Now players have to keep their fleets' formations and plan every single step in engagements with the Covenant. But, as everything new, this idea has some problems in part of performance.

 

The list of my objections and thoughts in short form, regarding UNSC balance you may see below:

 

 

1) UNSC is too weak in early game.

They have not even a single chance to expand and research something new,  if the Covenant player will push them hardly.  All their units are underpowered in both damage and hull strength in comparison to Covenant ones. Humans have to buy many weak units in order to compensate Covenant's superiority, but such taxes are bad for researches.

 

I understand that Alpha damage idea demands the UNSC to be like that, but now they're just like kittens in the river: enemy is too fast, too deadly.  I believe, if you will buff all their MAC damage and hull points slightly, nothing catastrophic will happen.  Furthermore, you will help to save some resources for necessary researches.

 

2) UNSC Shiva missile launchers are underpowered.

They have too small AoE and too low damage to Covenant  shields, but, as we all know Shiva is the only effective way for majority of the UNSC fleet to reduce enemy shields. I suggest to increase Shivas damage to shields greatly, and damage to hull slightly + increase AoE minor damage to all ships in area of blast.

 

In addition to this, I suggest to increase their AoE ability to disable light and medium enemies for some time greatly. With such levels of radiation, bright  flash and thermal effect on hull, their sensors must simply die... at least, for some time. Capital ships shouldn't suffer so much due to their size, while Titans can only take damage to shields and hull without any new disabling effects.

This change also won't ruin balance, because only capitals and stations have such powerful (but currently underpowered) weapon in their arsenal. 

 

3) UNSC has no effective non-capital tank classes in early game, while Covenant has entire line. It would be great, if Halcyon class will become available earlier. Perhaps, for higher price in cap and resources. It was very expensive ship and entered  service much earlier than Marathon.

Something must hold the line  and they're ideal for this job. Marathons are too expensive,  frigates are literally made from paperweight, ODPs can't perform slipspace jumps.

 

4) Majority of UNSC starships are underpowered in cases of MAC damage or hull strength, so there are only few useful classes to wage the war against Covenant: Halcyon, Autumn, Orion and Infinity.  I'm not talking about full-scale buff for the UNSC, but let's make those Marathons [+DMG+ARMOR], Valiants [+DMG, +HULL], Halberds [+DMG] and Charons [+DMG, -HULL] a little bit more useful. 

 

 

 

II. UNSC Units Objections

 

 

1) Marathon-class seems a little bit underpowered in early game and completely useless in middle and late. It has no sufficient hull, damage and speed to be formidable foe. I buy them only in early game, and only because of their stats, which are slightly better than Phoenix... and Shiva ability.

I suggest to buff it's MAC damage and increase it's armor with no price changes. This ship should finally occupy it's place as mass-produced combat vessel for early and middle game.

Additional problem: Marathon has missile barrage ability, but it can't be used until you research it.

 

2) ONI Sloop problems. You have to set enemy target in range to cloak it, while Sahara just have the button.

Another problem is that both ONI Sloop and Covenant Recon have no cloak animation at all - they simply vanish, like there are no their models. Also, Sloop can't exir cloak by player's order. In short: Basic Recons cloaking ability doesn't work correctly.

 

Problems with Cloak:

Spoiler

 

Also, ONI Sloop has 2 'reveal mines' slots on the tab: one as ability and the second as perk. What's about returning of old good Combat Maneuvering  for improved dodge chance instead?

 

3) Sahara-class Heavy Prowler problems.

 

1. Sahara-class basic weapon problem

 

It's clearly, that you use model similar to the ship from Halo Legends, episode 'The Package': same size, forms, same windows positions, same cloaking technology and even same underbelly docks for SPARTANs Jet Bikes. But there, in 'The Package' and on Halopedia it called OP-49776. In that movie, this vessel had blue pulse lasers. We see it when it's decloakig in order to save John-117 and Dr.Halsey from following Covenant aircraft. After decloaking, Prowler immediately shots volleys of blue fire and kills all Covenant Banshees almost instantly.  

Also, there is an article on Halopdeia about XEV9-Matos Nonlinear Pulse Cannons, which confirms that Sahara-class equipped with this weapon. But there is no information about OP-49776 weaponry. If you and me guess (and most likely be right) that they share one and same class (OP-49776=Sahara), so we must conclude that OP-49776 was armed with XEV9-Matos during  the Raid on Third Fleet of Glorious Consequence.

Furthermore, your VO actor says: "Charging pulse lasers" when Sahara ordered to engage the enemy.

Now, in current release,  Sahara-class armed with unknown red beams and can't attack enemy aircraft.  Those beams are ineffective against almost everything Covenant have in their arsenal.

To solve this problem, I suggest to change it's beam weapon to canonical XEV9-Matos pulse laser cannons and allow it to attack enemy small crafts (Banshees, Seraphs, etc), dealing extremely high amounts of damage to them. Also, those lasers should be effective against smallest enemy  ships: recons, corvettes, transports, builders.

 Then prowler will have a chance to change tide of battle, like in 'The Package' and just save itself from enemy patrols in hazardous situations, when cloak field disengaged. Anyway, without real MAC it won't be a threat for a real Covenant ship... So, balance won't be ruined and in-game description will remain correct.

 

OP-49776 (Sahara by your version) in action:

 

Tip: you may check original game files (Advents) and find good visual effects for XEV9-Matos there. Perhaps, even with appropriate sound. With increased rate of fire per volley (aka laser machinegun), it would be close to 'The Package' effect.

 

2. Sahara-class low antimatter amount

 

Now Sahara-class has MAX. 36 antimatter points, while Cloak costs 1.1 per second, Shiva costs 6 per launch and + it has to perform slipspace jumps to gather intelligence.  Ofcourse, those jumps should be cloaked to not be detected/destroyed instantly. So,  this cloak works approximately 5 minutes in idle stance and without any additional taxes. In slipspace it drains very quickly, sometimes even in half way.

 

Perhaps you made such small amount of antimatter in order to prevent players from sitting in Cloak for too long, launching Shivas  and building minefields without any retaliation (with all consequences), but now it's simply insufficient for specialized intelligence work deep behind enemy lines.  After all antimatter expires, players have to wait approximately 10 seconds before cloaking field might be re-engaged for new relatively long term. Enemy aircraft and ships can't reach the prowler anyway, but you have to distract from more important things to handle the situation. Still... no retaliation.  

 

Most interesting thing is that ONI Sloop has 120 antimatter points and same tax rate, not being a capital ship, so it's not so expensive, but even more effective as intelligence vessel.  Without long term cloaking Sahara is really almost useless. Minefields, Shivas and Spartans don't cost ship's price.

 

I suggest to increase Sahara-class MAX. antimatter amount at least to 50-60 points in order to prolong it's time under cloak and so make players' lives more quiet and prolong average mission time. But Shiva cost should be increased to 10 or even 15 points, to be fair.

 

3. Sahara-class HORENT mines problems

 

I had to make a list, because there are few things to be fixed

-Now Sahara  can transport some amount of HORNET nuclear mines, but in-game they're called (both unit and ability) as standard proximity mines.  Wrong description.

-These mines work as sensor, and even when all friendly units are out of the system, mines still see and hear everything there. A little bit unfair, isn't it? I believe, this problem should be fixed.

-These mines have too small area of deployment, number and too long ability recharge time (90 secs!).  Now there are only 5 mines per shot... So they're almost useless. I suggest to increase their number to 10-15 and area of effect to 2-3 times of current value.

-These mines deal very low damage to Covenant shields and hulls, so they're useless. as weapon. I suggest to make them really nuclear and really deadly.

-These mines need some time to cloak, and during this time they might be destroyed with ease. More over, when they're destroyed they blow up WITHOUT any damage to enemy units staying close to them, right in range of explosion. I suggest to increase their damage from destruction greatly and decrease time, needed to cloak.

-These mines can not be detonated, because remote detonation button requires a target.

 

HORNETs detonation button now:

Spoiler

 

-Also, they can't be placed in Asteroids gravity wells. It says that all mines slots already used.

 

4. Sahara-class Shiva nuclear missile targeting [SUGGESTION!]

 

As all other Shivas, it has too low damage to Covenant shields and hulls, BUT: it can attack any type of  targets, even buildings. So, I suggest to add ability to fire at any target to all Shivas in UNSC Navy.

 

5. Sahara-class Cloaking field:

 

While cloaked, Sahara can use all of its abilities. It seems a illogical and really unfair. I suggest to disable all other ship's abilities (Shiva, Spartans, Mines) while it's cloaked. If you remember, in 'The Package' it had to drop its cloak in order to launch Spartans party.

Besides, could you add delay to all cloaking abilities?.  Let's say, 1.5-2 seconds after ability engaged or disengaged. Then covert operations will be more interesting and risky.

 

6. Sahara-class can't get Shield Upgrade

 

Being a capital ship, Sahara can't be upgraded with shield technology. In it's case every drop of hull/shields is critical. Hope you will fix it.

 

7.  Sahara has no own icon in ship production menu. There is ONI Sloop picture.

 

8. Sahara has no stylized model for unit/faction display in the left lower corner.

 

9. Sahara has unused experience points after level 5. It would be great, if you'll find some way to use them.

 

 

4) Capital ships and Infinity shield recharge effects

They use different effects, when Shield Recharge ability enabled. Infinity's one looks better. What's about unify this effect for all ships?

 

5) Charon, Paris and Stalwart classes have different MACs damage values

For some reason, all these ships have different MACs damage.

 

I suggest to equal their MACs damage values, but make Paris most armored and best-equipped with archers to counter enemy frigates. Stalwart should remain it's position of antiaircraft frigate as now, but with slightly worse armor and archers ammunition than Paris. And Charon should have worst armor/HPs from all, but being capable to invade planets.

 

6) Valiant-class seems underpowered. At least, for super-heavy cruiser. It's known that it's a command vessel and should not go in first wave, but command stuff cannot be placed onboard of unreliable ship. And Valiant's basic low HPs make it just as I said: unreliable.  This sort of super-heavy cruiser can't withstand massive amounts of damage without even a single experience armor upgrade. Though, with this upgrade it's still too vulnerable to enemy small crafts and long range energy weapon.

 

Also, it's MAC damage in previous version was much better than now.  So, what's about getting her back into action with slightly improved MAC damage and greater hull plating? For greater price, of course.  Buff giver must live for living.

 

7) Autumn class heavy cruiser  use Halcyion's voice. Perhaps, you will add a new one?

 

8) Check Autumn class abilities. Now it has Shield Recharge even without shields.

 

9) Halcyon still use old model, while you've promised new one. With class name and post-war UNSC logo.

 

New Halcyon model, not included in present release:

Spoiler

 

 

III. UI Problems

 

1) No 'scuttle' and 'rename' buttons with resolution lower than recommended. They're out of screen, so can't be picked and pushed. I believe it's a significant problem for many players. I can't provide you with screenshots, because personally I have no such problem.

 

2) UI has a "Dead zone" between lower left and right tabs. You can not pick up units there, so you have to move your screen to do it.  Perhaps, you would like to fill the gap with those 'Rename' and 'Scuttle' buttons? Kill 2 rabbits per shot.

 

"Dead Zone"

 

3) Player in-game portraits are bigger than frame, so you can see wrong effect on face of your character. Also it looks a bit inaccurate.

 

Spoiler

 

4) In many places words are crossing their tabs. For example, in research menu. Relationships Tab and Diplomacy menu also have this problem.

 

5) Research menu doesn't indicate bright  space to separate currently available researches from unavailable and soon available. Very uncomfortable.

 

Screens for 4 and 5:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

6) Not sure if it is bug or not, but when you create a match you don't see characters' portraits. Also, after you've chosen faction your logo decrease it size greatly. Strange things happen.

 

7) Matchmaking UI looks broken. Many things... Words crossing tabs somewhere. Wrong place for match name and password, no pretty background.

 

8) Some vessels, like Saharas, Eions and Stalwarts don't have stylized models for unit/faction display in the left lower corner.

 

9) Cradle Supply Depot has broken faction logo on screen. You can see it only if you're looking directly from close enough distance, but as soon as you go far enough it's emblem vanishes. Also, Cradle Depot somewhat uses an Orbital HQ model, but OHQ still has this on its picture in menu.

 

10) UNSC (not sure about Covenant) WIN tab is broken. There is no picture and fonts lying above logo.

 

How it looks like:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

IV. General suggestions:

 

 

1) Separate DEFCOM from OFCOM by new criteria.

OFCOM will have only units and common (faction-wide) military researches, while DEFCOM will have only specific buildings/defenses and their very specific researches. Just like in Armada III.

 

2) To build ODPs/Hangars/Bases/Titan Factories all factions have to research them first. So, if ODP and Hangers will be available to research in early game, so bases will become available only in middle, and titans foundries only in late. Also, Covenant as clearly offensive faction should have their defensive buildings and their researches much far from start, than the UNSC. Let's say, hangars available from mid.game and their researches in late.

 

3) Make Cloaking ability affecting stats

-First, I suggest to make all units, exited cloak untargettable for 1-2 seconds for enemies (they need some time to pick up target and bring weapons to there).

-Second, add  'Ambush' buff for 5 seconds after decloaking to all units with cloak. It will increase weapons damage on 20% for all ships' weapon.

-Add cooldown 5-10 seconds to every cloak with 1.5 sec delay before engage and completely disengage cloak.

 

4) Change animation for all disabled units. Now they're just rotating on X axis (Swan's Lake of 26th century?). I suggest to add Y axis like in Armada III. So all disabled units have to not only change course, but also correct their angle.

 

5) Add defensive weapon to diplomatic vessels. Even in Star Trek (much less brutal that Halo) universe these liars had something scary to show.

Let's say, machineguns to have at least some level of protection against enemy small crafts.

 

6) Allow players to jump to allies slipspace beacons. 

 

7) Decrease planet bombing effects' speed and make different planet bombing values. All those planes fly too fast. Also, all UNSC ships now have equal planet bombarding damage. It is strange, because Charons looks slightly smaller that Phoenixes. And Infinity...


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#2 베이클라이트

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:42 AM

wrong subforum. This is Homeworld. Not SOTP. Someone move it.


YmSsY2C.png

 

 

 

 


#3 Cole Protocol

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:42 AM

1) UNSC is too weak in early game. They have not even a single chance to expand and research something new,  if the Covenant player will push them hardly.  All their units are underpowered in both damage and hull strength in comparison to Covenant ones. Humans have to buy many weak units in order to compensate Covenant's superiority, but such taxes are bad for researches.
Yes, UNSC is very weak early game, and that is because the UNSC is incredibly powerful in late game. A strong early game for the UNSC would be disastrous in that the UNSC would become an unstoppable monster in combat. You need to hit the UNSC while they are weak, otherwise you will have trouble rooting them out when they get their walls of SMACs.

 

 
3) UNSC has no effective non-capital tank classes in early game, while Covenant has entire line. It would be great, if Halcyon class will become available earlier. Perhaps, for higher price in cap and resources. It was very expensive ship and entered  service much earlier than Marathon.
 

 

The UNSC really has no tank capital at all, for the simple reason that a tank capital is redundant. Capitalships are meant to be the heaviest hitters in the fleet, having one for the sole purpose of taking damage is counterproductive. The Marathon also isn't really a flimsy piece of metal, if you use a Marathon right it can be a deadly tool.

 

 

6) Allow players to jump to allies slipspace beacons.
This is already implemented via research.
 
And this is a general response to all the "underpowerd" complaints. To put bluntly, that is intentional. The UNSC ships are weak individually, they are supposed to be pretty flimsy and crappy in overall stats on a per ship basis. The UNSC excels not because it has strong ships, but because of how fast they can replace them and how many they can field. UNSC fleets can get routinely decimated unless you are in the very late game, and this is intentional. The UNSC doctrine is victory by attrition, you overwhelm your enemy planet by planet with spam tactics while your SMAC walls and Anchors protect your empire. 
 
I really think you will find that UNSC isn't as flimsy as you think the more you play them. They can take some getting used to, and with the 0.75.1 being out for such a short period I have to think that claims these broad are a bit premature.


#4 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:43 AM

Edited:

 

Thank you, Cole Protocol. Quite fast reaction...


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#5 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 12:40 PM

Added Notes:

 

Multiplayer UI problems screens

Spoiler
Spoiler

Spoiler


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#6 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 12:53 PM

 

 
 
And this is a general response to all the "underpowerd" complaints. To put bluntly, that is intentional. The UNSC ships are weak individually, they are supposed to be pretty flimsy and crappy in overall stats on a per ship basis. The UNSC excels not because it has strong ships, but because of how fast they can replace them and how many they can field. UNSC fleets can get routinely decimated unless you are in the very late game, and this is intentional. The UNSC doctrine is victory by attrition, you overwhelm your enemy planet by planet with spam tactics while your SMAC walls and Anchors protect your empire. 
 
I really think you will find that UNSC isn't as flimsy as you think the more you play them. They can take some getting used to, and with the 0.75.1 being out for such a short period I have to think that claims these broad are a bit premature.

 

I see your point and I understand it, but now, if you play against really smart enemy, so you have no chances. Perhaps, some earlier Halcyon would save the day? Also, UNSC still have many ineffective units in late game. Only few classes are effective. Perhaps you will find some way to back now retired classes into action? I mean Paris (Improve dodge?), Charon (Improve MAC damage?), Valiant (it's too vulnerable for buff dealer) Marathon (it's twin MAC performs as one, actually), Stalwart (It'sirreplaceable, but what's about +dodge?).


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#7 Aunt Gruntie

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 12:54 PM

Wow, that was a short novel. me and Cole will try to respond....

 

First, anything in regards to the UI is still WIP. Things will look much better next release.

 

 

 

Now on to the Sahara. The weapon effects were going to be done that way, but we didn't have time. The antimatter count was probably lowered a tad overmuch. I think it could probably benefit from being a bit higher, but it is what it is for now.

 

For the mines, it was  a conscience decision for them to grant planet vision.I do agree that the deployment radius of the mines is far too small.

Also the mines ARE nukes, I literally used the nuke as a base for making the mine, that being said, the way sins handles mines is terrible, as the mines have a hard time doing their full damage to anything as they fly past their target then detonate. Hopefully I can fix it for the next release.

As for the vulnerability of mines when they're first deployed, that was also a conscience decision. Without that vulnerable period, you could just throw down 5 nuke tier mines on an enemy fleet, and there'd be nothing they could do. 

 

The Sahara's nuke is able to target structures because it's main weapon does piss for damage, and the nuke is there so it can wreck people buildings behind their lines, or destroy ODP's. having that on all Capital ships is pointless, as their MAC's are more than adequate for the job.

 

As for the Cloak, the entire point of the Sahara is to be able to use abilities WHILE cloaked. Otherwise it becomes a useless ship. Trust me, we talked about this ship for a long time trying to figure out what to do with it. 

 

Sahara doesn't need shield refit, it's cloak is it's main, and only defense.

 

 

 

Now onto the UNSC general balance.

I play mostly UNSC whenever I play, and honestly I think they sit rather well. as for your concerns about readjusting ship stats, I think they are all unnecessary. Not only that Even tweaks, like the ones you're suggesting, could drastically alter the over faction strength. Also I wholeheartedly agree that the UNSC is underpowered early game. However, the UNSC's late game severely outpaces the Covenant by quite a margin. That's the trade off you get by choosing UNSC. 

In regards to your thoughts on the Shive Nuke, we've gone back and forth on Shiva power. Mostly it's been OP as balls for a very long time. Atm it's does almost 6k damage to a single target plus splash damage and debuffs to ships without EMP hardening. It's still quite powerful, and I think it sits rather well where it's at, maybe it's splash damage is a tad lacking, but I like it.

 

ONI sloop has cloak, meaning invulnerability, why does it need a chance to dodge buff? Those 2 mine abilities were there to ease the pain of clearing large gravity wells of large numbers of mines.

The Sahara's cloak ability is different because you can activate it at any time to maximize effectiveness without being OP, the Prowler's ability MUST target enemy ships so it's AUTOCAST can function correctly for both Humans and AI players without any micro required.

 

The Autumns shield regen ability shows up regardless if it has shields or not, and can't be fixed because Sins is a big bitch. Also, We promised a new Halcyon? When? Where? What's wrong with the one ingame now? It's a great model.

 

The way you suggest research to be done is how Vanilla does it. We are doing it differently for a couple reasons, which you will find out soon enough.

 

Why should cloaking effect stats? Only Scouts and Sahara can cloak, so none of you suggestions make sense for crafts of these roles.

 

Disabled ships in Sins all behave the same way, they will rotate on the X and Y axis until the disable ends. Also the rate, and direction is somewhat random it seems. Basically, it already does what you suggested.

 

Add weapons to diplo ships?! WTF? Why? You do realize that the have an ability that makes the INVINCIBLE right? Not only that, due to the way Diplomacy works in Sins (and IRL believe it or not) actively SHOOTING the people you're trying to make friend with makes NO SENSE.

 

I do think we should add back in the pact that lets you jump to allied slipspace beacons

EDIT: The ability to do this is native to both factions from the start of the match. Once you setup any slipspace beacons your ally can jump to them.

 

7) Decrease planet bombing effects' speed and make different planet bombing values. All those planes fly too fast. Also, all UNSC ships now have equal planet bombarding damage. It is strange, because Charons looks slightly smaller that Phoenixes. And Infinity...

 

Not the worst idea in the world.


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#8 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 01:20 PM

1) Because even Phoenix colony ship has a machinegun for some purpose. Point defence for UEG dignitaries, why not? It's not a MAC or deck cannons. 

 

2) Ambush damage+untargettable buff might be useful to attack ODPs and unleash Shivas being uncoaked for some time. There are more interesting ways to make Sahara useful, without cloak-cheating. And... now this very cloak has too small antimatter points so yes, it's almost useless ship. It's operational range is too short for heavy prowler, while Sloop can monitor enemy's capital with it's 120 antimatter... Sloops... yes, they're not a threat anyway. If you won't make it (due to multiple reason), so you may at least buff Sahara damage to small targets and allow it to attack fighters. Diversions are ONI job too.

 

3) Sahara lasers might be a deadly power to counter small wings of enemy aircraft, small vessels and unarmed ships. Shiva can damage only small number of targets (if it placed correctly) and for relatively large amount of antimatter + long cooldown. Against something serious it's useless. It can't be main weapon anyway. 

 

4) ONI sloops are small and fast insertion crafts. I should ask why they shouldnt' have dodge buff. Sahara is also prowler. It must have some devices for electronic warfare on board.  It would be great if you will implement some logical additions to the mod. Balance for balance is not very interesting way to do something, but... for the balance prowlers should be really sneaky and stealthy. It's always harder to aim small fast-moving target like Paris or Sloop than entire fat and slow Marathon... Do some job in this direction and make this capital class really worthy. 

 

5) Shivas are ineffective without large shield drain to capital ships. If you increase it's shield damage, then it would be good. Otherwise... it's just a torpedo now, and it's unclear how it differs from old Hyperion (Small EMP debuff? Small AoE? For thermonuclear charge? Really?). Big bomb should make a big boom with clear effect. 

 

6) About mines... not only  number, but also damage, bacuse they are not so deadly as nukes should be. Way I see it: small task force of light and medium covenant ships goes onto meinefield and dies instantly. Capitals suffer significant damage and loose their shields, after what someone will catch a Shiva. Survived ships without EMP plating also disabled due to HORNETs nuclear blast. Otherwise... they're useless. No damage, high cost, small number and very short radius in very big gravity wells. Some parametrs must be buffed in order to make it worthy. I suggest damage and radius.

 

 

Small interesting features mean no harm and add some insignificant, but very nice diversity to gameplay. Dodge chances for frigates, prowlers and small crafts, really working EMPs and interesting cloak features - all are parts of those things that is always nice to see in games. 


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#9 Darrell

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 01:31 PM

one thing id to add about the sloop, i make 100+ of them at a time and they can barely explore anything before all 100 get obliterated. the covenant destroy them before any of them ever get to activate there cloak.

 

 

Side question's, The Cruiser Halberd class, is it a 100% upgrade over the Paris class? i know the Paris gets the cluster missile upgrade, so im not sure which one to use.

Do y'all have much control over fleet cohesion? im having a hard time getting fleets to move together effectively regardless of whether i pick tight normal or loose, ships seem far more interested in formation then engaging the enemy.

On that note i see my Infinity too often turning its back to enemies right in-front of it, to go after a stupid planet assault ship across the gravity well., it is basically trying to suicide instead of destroy the enemies killing itself.



#10 Cole Protocol

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:05 PM

I don't even bother with the fleet function, it's not suited to SotP's fast paced combat. It typically leaves the flagship running out ahead of it's support ships and dies a horrible death. So don't use it.

This. Additionally as UNSC you run the risk of having your entire fleet waste 10,000 MACs on 1 CRS.

 

5) Shivas are ineffective without large shield drain to capital ships. If you increase it's shield damage, then it would be good. Otherwise... it's just a torpedo now, and it's unclear how it differs from old Hyperion (Small EMP debuff? Small AoE? For thermonuclear charge? Really?). Big bomb should make a big boom with clear effect. 

Uhm. Shivas have anything but a small AOE. They can paralize ships and make them hurt for a very good difference. IIRC they have like 5 different buff chains in the code to dictate how far it goes, which is a lot. The Covenant's larger ships have an ability that lets them ignore Shiva EMP effects however, so this inefficiency you see is probably coming from that.



#11 Aunt Gruntie

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:06 PM

one thing id to add about the sloop, i make 100+ of them at a time and they can barely explore anything before all 100 get obliterated. the covenant destroy them before any of them ever get to activate there cloak.

 

 

Side question's, The Cruiser Halberd class, is it a 100% upgrade over the Paris class? i know the Paris gets the cluster missile upgrade, so im not sure which one to use.

Do y'all have much control over fleet cohesion? im having a hard time getting fleets to move together effectively regardless of whether i pick tight normal or loose, ships seem far more interested in formation then engaging the enemy.

On that note i see my Infinity too often turning its back to enemies right in-front of it, to go after a stupid planet assault ship across the gravity well., it is basically trying to suicide instead of destroy the enemies killing itself.

 

Halber is Def better than the Paris, however the Cluster missile gives the Paris slightly better DPS against large groups of enemies, while the Halber has MUCH better alpha damage.

 

I don't even bother with the fleet function, it's not suited to SotP's fast paced combat. It typically leaves the flagship running out ahead of it's support ships and dies a horrible death. So don't use it.

 

 

3) Sahara lasers might be a deadly power to counter small wings of enemy aircraft, small vessels and unarmed ships. Shiva can damage only small number of targets (if it placed correctly) and for relatively large amount of antimatter + long cooldown. Against something serious it's useless. It can't be main weapon anyway. 

 

 

We're planning to give the Sahara's main weapons usefulness don't you worry.


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#12 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:14 PM

About Shiva... I mean, it would be great if it would act as main shield-cutter for the UNSC. 


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#13 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:15 PM

Sorry about the off topicness, but dear lord, 9 user viewing.

 

Also, yeah, Paris is generally phased out by me as soon as I have Halberds.


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#14 Cole Protocol

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:23 PM

About Shiva... I mean, it would be great if it would act as main shield-cutter for the UNSC. 

It... it is... the Shiva is meant to do just that while hurting fleets as a whole.

 

I really think you are making a lot of judgments based off of little experience actually playing 0.75.1. Assuming you have been playing 24-7, you would have been playing this mod for less than 48 hours at maximum. I don't see how you have such strong opinions when the release hasn't even left the infancy stages. I think if you go back and play for a while, try out both factions fully and fairly, you will have a lot more appreciation for the current balance of the mod.


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#15 SiRD31M0S

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:27 PM

On that note i see my Infinity too often turning its back to enemies right in-front of it, to go after a stupid planet assault ship across the gravity well., it is basically trying to suicide instead of destroy the enemies killing itself.

Every ship can do this. Siege ships have a higher auto attack priority, and since Infinity is the most likely ship in the game to quickly kill its target, it's often the first to get bent over by the ship AI.

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#16 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:44 PM

It... it is... the Shiva is meant to do just that while hurting fleets as a whole.

 

I really think you are making a lot of judgments based off of little experience actually playing 0.75.1. Assuming you have been playing 24-7, you would have been playing this mod for less than 48 hours at maximum. I don't see how you have such strong opinions when the release hasn't even left the infancy stages. I think if you go back and play for a while, try out both factions fully and fairly, you will have a lot more appreciation for the current balance of the mod.

 

I don't need much time to make some tests and conclusions. I wasn't playing, I was seeking mistakes and all other things to submit them to you ASAP, before Stridents are out. Also, monitoring my friends progress and asking them about their thoughts. All you've read are not only my findings.

If I (personally) see that something is ineffective, even in large numbers, so I write it into my notes. If I  see something that wrong, so I'm doing the same. 

 

I have appretiation to current balance of the mod and I like new changes, but some of them are... Let me call them invalid. There are not many of them, only a few and not about entire balance. Balance notes are minor part of this list, major are Shiva, Sahara, Sloop, HORNETS, UI and Halcyon tier change. 

 

Getting back to Shiva... Now you said that its for hurting fleets at whole, but it's so nerfed that can't hurt the enemy dangerously. EMP effect is too short, damage is too low against swarms of targets. It cant hurt capitals and ships with somehow strong shields seriously, so now Shiva is something like stilet to kill cruisers and frigates with some colleteral damage.

Also, UNSC have nothing except most powerful MACs to drain enemy shields. If I correct, so canonicaly UNSC use Shivas to drain Covenant capitals shields in major engagements. 


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#17 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:46 PM

As long as you micro the nukes to hit important targets, they work well in my experience.

 

Although i do think Halcyon could be moved back a tier.


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#18 Battlemage1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:53 PM

As long as you micro the nukes to hit important targets, they work well in my experience.

 

 

Exactly. Shivas now like torpedoes in Star Trek ) Good in volleys and against single targets. But do thermonuclear warheads in Halo works like that? I believe there won't be something bad, if you have to fire 1-2 shavas to disable shields, than 4-5.

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#19 SiRD31M0S

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:57 PM

What I'm getting out of this thread: "Shivas aren't one-shotting ships and the Sahara isn't killing entire fleets on its own. They're all useless! Playing tactically and strategizing has not crossed my mind, even as I recommend changes to supposedly allow tactical play and strategizing."
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#20 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:57 PM

Shivas in my experience are a support weapon of sorts. It lowers shields and disables weapons. They are not meant to be ultra-powerful. Keep in mind, an unshielded frigate survived a nuke in Fall of Reach. Nukes must be micro'd to hit important targets such as low tier caps or groups of CCS/RCS.


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