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SotP v. Alpha 0.75.1 | My Feedback and Suggestions


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#21 Darrell

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 03:12 PM

does anyone have any idea whats going on with the sloops? i cant ever get any to cloak before they are space dust. isee that tehy according to the tool tip are supposed to target an enemy in range to trigger the cloak... but they are blown up before that happens. right now they are essentially useless.



#22 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 03:27 PM

I don't need much time to make some tests and conclusions. 

Meanwhile the PT corp has put hundreds of hours into meticulously testing this mod. We believe that this mod is very much balanced right now. The UNSC is weak early game, strong late game. Vice Versa for Cov. Take some more time to play first, and then see if you still feel the same way.


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#23 Admiral Stukov

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 03:32 PM

Indeed, Shiva is a tactical weapon. It's EMP blast should disable enemy sensors and affect a long time(10-15 sec. maybe 20sec...). Also. Shiva - large thermonuclear armament, so...  I guess it should deal large damage...  more large then in current version. My point is that changes will provide tactical ballance between Cov and UNSC at early game periods.



#24 SiRD31M0S

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 03:33 PM

Meanwhile the PT corp has put hundreds of hours into meticulously testing this mod. We believe that this mod is very much balanced right now. The UNSC is weak early game, strong late game. Vice Versa for Cov. Take some more time to play first, and then see if you still feel the same way.

Slanderous fabrications! First impressions are clearly unparalleled in their depth and consideration of minor detail.
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#25 Lavo

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 03:59 PM

1) UNSC is too weak in early game.

They have not even a single chance to expand and research something new,  if the Covenant player will push them hardly.  All their units are underpowered in both damage and hull strength in comparison to Covenant ones. Humans have to buy many weak units in order to compensate Covenant's superiority, but such taxes are bad for researches.

The Shiva will disable every Cov ship early game, even the ORS. Pop the ORS a Shiva pill and it's gone for awhile.

 

2) UNSC Shiva missile launchers are underpowered.

I don't see how this is the case given their instant damage and EMP effect. Additionally, the UNSC can field many capital ships, meaning many Shivas. Also, nuclear blasts in space have a very small radius of kill power; unlike planets where there is a lot of air/gas (mass) to transmit the energy produced by the blast wave, in space there is only vacuum.

 

4) Majority of UNSC starships are underpowered

Of course the UNSC appears underpowered versus the Covenant. The latter is far more technologically ahead than the former. Really not sure what you are getting at here. Also, buffing the Charon's MAC damage and nerfing it's health? The ship is used as a planetary siege vessel in SotP rather than as a front-line warship.

 

1) Marathon-class seems a little bit underpowered in early game and completely useless in middle and late. It has no sufficient hull, damage and speed to be formidable foe.

The Marathon is faster than the Autumn and Valiant. How is this slow? In terms of damage and hull it notably outstrips all UNSC frigates and also has a Shiva, which further buffs it's damage output. The midgame missile ability buffs this ship's DPS considerably. Early game the ship is much more powerful than the Paris class vessels you can field, and has better damage output than two Halberds while costing the same in supply.

 

Sahara-class low antimatter amount

I agree with you here. Unfortunately due to time constraints, we did not have sufficient time to entirely test the ship ingame. Previously the Sahara had a much longer cloak time, comparable to the Sloop's, but it was far too good. The current amount was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to ensure that it wasn't entirely OP on release, though it was too much. I like your proposal about raising time but also raising the Shiva AM drain.

 

I would like to point out however that, in the context of the mod, the Sloop is a dedicated scouting vessel, while the Sahara is a specialized asymmetrical warship with minor intelligence capability. You do bring up a good point about cloak AM drain in slipspace... I have a possible solution for this, which if it works, would also help the Sahara's overall cloak time.

 

Further, the reason that the Sahara's Shiva does not have the same constraints as the regular Shiva is due to it being only buildable by humans and has autocast off. For the regular Shiva, if these constraints were not present, it results very wonky autocast behavior (ex. Shiva being fired at a scout). The Shiva can in fact target armed planet modules, which essentially means only the SMAC.

 

-These mines work as sensor, and even when all friendly units are out of the system, mines still see and hear everything there. A little bit unfair, isn't it? I believe, this problem should be fixed.

This was an intentional decision on the part of the intelligence capability ability of the ship; essentially the mines also act as listening posts. Is that truly so broken?

 

5) Charon, Paris and Stalwart classes have different MACs damage values

Each of these ships have different reactor outputs and different MAC barrel lengths, resulting in different MAC values. Further, of these, only the Paris is used as a dedicated ship-to-ship combat vessel in the mod.
 

4) Capital ships and Infinity shield recharge effects

They use different effects, when Shield Recharge ability enabled. Infinity's one looks better. What's about unify this effect for all ships?

This is not that simple, as each ship would require it's own unique particle. Infinity got one as it is Infinity; the pride of the UNSC fleet and the faction's Titan.

 

7) Autumn class heavy cruiser  use Halcyion's voice. Perhaps, you will add a new one?

Perhaps Sancho will do this; I personally cannot make any guarantees here. I agree with you on this personally

 

9) Halcyon still use old model, while you've promised new one. With class name and post-war UNSC logo.

This is a new texture, not a new model. Unfortunately it was not ready yet for this release.

 

1) Separate DEFCOM from OFCOM by new criteria.

This would make research trees too cluttered, which will not work with the future research UI update.

 

5) Add defensive weapon to diplomatic vessels.

This is rather pointless; putting some small PDGs would require rigging for something one would never use. Further, the reason that colony ships have weapons is so that the AI will properly build and use the ships, rather than for any sort of offensive usage.

 

7) Decrease planet bombing effects' speed and make different planet bombing values.

The infocard does not tell you this, but every ship has a different bombardment frequency, meaning that bombing DPS is in fact different.

 

As a closing point, I recommend that you download and take a look at this spreadsheet. It features correct values for weapon damage, and accounts for the weapon buff/penalty versus UNSC/Cov ships, respectfully, and is thus much more accurate that the misleading infocards.


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#26 베이클라이트

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 05:19 PM

Meanwhile the PT corp has put hundreds of hours into meticulously testing this mod.


yet your name is orange :PPPPPPPP


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#27 Solemn Penance

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 05:38 PM

Battlemage, your posts are clearly rather ill-informed and you are coming off as slightly arrogant. I recommend you get to know the halo lore a little better and spend a little more time and research before you post more of your opinions. The devs have spent a huge amount of time giving this mod to you for free and I strongly object to you criticizing their work before thinking things through. Anyway, I like constructive criticism as long as it's properly considered, as some of your ideas are. It's just that some of your other ideas aren't.


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#28 Solemn Penance

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 05:39 PM

 Also, no one in their right mind has ever armed a diplomatic ship in the history of ever. If it's going to come under attack, then why the hell are you sending it!! That one irks me.


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#29 베이클라이트

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 05:41 PM

 why the hell are you sending it!!

To make diplomatic contact (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

 

 

 

k I stop posting now. Don't ban pliz.


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#30 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

To make diplomatic contact (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

 

 

 

k I stop posting now. Don't ban pliz.

Too late, bake is ban.

 

And yeah, Battlemage, many of your suggestions don't work in Lore or Balance.


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#31 Battlemage1

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 12:02 PM

Oh my God, how many words you've typed... Living place. 

 

 

But, I've found a little bit more problems and willing to share. Also, there are some of my less radical thoughts about current score.

 

 

Problems:

 

1) New Orion-class texture (or model) not implemented yet. Perhaps, you've forgot or it's still undone, like new Halcyon.

 

2) Covenant Attacker AI (Hard or harder, don't remember) on Elysia map have some problems with planets. It's not going to capture worlds untill me forces led them there or lured someway. AI is very passive and only repelling my attacks on their insertion crafts and small task forces, sometimes with larger further incursions.

 

Spoiler

 

3) Sometimes UNSC capitals stucks before go to warp and stay there, when all their fleet have already departed. You have to order them course change and jump again in order ot solve the problem.

 

4) With Punic-class in battlegroup, ships sometimes choose jump point in gravity well, but much further from... Let's call it normal jump point. They have to make longer way to point inside gravity well to jump, than get out of it directly. 

 

5) Covenant scouts just stay and stare on cloaked HORNETS. They don't even trying to go closer and disable them.

 

6) Today, pack of HORNETS was alerted by Covenant vessel. Just as Sins mechanics demands, they've begun pursuit, but soon gave up and got back to initial position. 

 

7) HORNET mine sensor perk is 'STRING NOT FOUND'.

 

8) Cradle Depot has some abilities or perks, but there are no info and pictures about them. Only effects.

 

9) With found 'Ancient Energy Core' artifact Sahara has stable working cloak on eternal 41 of 42 antimatter points. Even after cloaked slipspace antimatter restore while cloaking field is active.

 

10) On level 10, Sahara has 4 unspent experience points. What's about further Shiva improvements? 

 

11) If you have ships in 'cease fire' mod being infected by flood, so they won't attack you anyway. If they have local area, so you have to go close enough to make them shoot at you. Also, these ships even with flood turned off sometimes go to warp to your system and only stay and wait there, untill they're destroyed.

 

 

 

Suggestions:

 

1) Increase ODPs main gun firepower and range, but decrease their fire rate and available number for all types of planets, except asteroids. Increase their HPs and/or armor and add weak-medium point defence cannons to fight incoming aircraft. Perhaps, increase their overall price in titanium and credits. Huge MACs walls looks really impressive, but unrealistic and something  prompts me that UNSC have not so many free space, resources and personell on planets to sustain all of them. Also, despite their lack of strenght... now it's kinda unfair to Covenant. Helixes AA also would be useful only against small number of fighters and bombers due to their range and... damage. Now there is nothing more effective (Price-Quality) to counter aircraft than your own aircraft.  

 

And I've never seen so many ODPs in Halo, like here. As far I know, there are clusters from ~5 MACs above significant objects on the planet. So, looks like both balance and Lore are not broken.

 

According to this article, ODPs have some defensive weapon. But now they more resembles Tau from Warhammer. Those guys can't do anything in melee too. But... actually here we have large space stations with idiotically expensive weapon and large number of crewmen. Perhaps, there were some Helixes on board yet?  

http://halo.wikia.co...efense_Platform

 

2) Perhaps, one day you could add new fire animation for bombers. Maybe HAVOK missile (or analog, you better know) missiles for the UNSC bombers and large plasma bursts (or what they use) for the Covenant. Also, if UNSC bombers would be more serious threat so there will be reason to buy some.

 

3) Make different shield capacity for all UNSC capitals, basing on reactor outputs. More likely that Autumns have more durable shields than Marathons. Shields are not standard equipment (like standard MAC) and, most likely unique for every class energy capabilites. 

 

4) Increase damage to Valiant dual MACs. It's strange that super-heavy cruiser, further deisgn of Marathon (If I'm not mistaken) has worse MACs than original class. Not sure if 'reactor output' is reasonable here, due to MACs models on ships. If this very model require such amount of power, so unlikely engineers will install it without additional generator or something like that.

 

5) Same thing about frigates... Charon, Paris and likely Stalwart have light MACs (unknown, if they share same model, but most likely. Why UNSC must develop 3 different light MAC types for 3 frigates?), which must be powered equally and deal equal damage. Reactor output is not explanation due to additional power store and support generators. All ships (in Halo, Star Trek, Warhammer) must have some additional power to transfer to ship's systems, but some classes have many energy to transfer, while some have poor store for emergency cases. I believe that Charon advanced life-support system is not so energy expending to change basic MAC parametrs. Alike thing with Stalwart.

 

Yes, they have different battle roles and armament, but as I understand, differs only armor, some equipment and secondary weaponry. 

 

6) Add different dodge buffs to all small ships: corvettes, frigates. They move faster, have better turn rate and smaller size. They were build with additional manueverability in exchange for heavier armor and devastating weaponry.

Directed energy weapon unlikely have 100% accuracy in this case... In balance... this measure will increase bad survival rate of frigates and corvettes and make their lives a little bit longer. Interesting feature to the mod.

 

Remember Iroquois, how long it avoided all incoming fire, being not even a frigate, but entire destroyer! 

 

Now I think about next numbers for the UNSC (Going to check them personally soon):

 

ONI Sloop - 30 Dodge Chance (Fast insertion craft has better chances to dodge of all small ships fleet. Only fighters/bombers can do better.)

Sahara-class - 25 Dodge Chance (It's a prowler. Small vessel with stealth coating, cutting-edge cloaking techonlogy and electronic warfare equipment on board to wage so called asymetric warfare. If cloak disabled, they have to flee. So let them flee as real ONI agents: fast and succesfully )

Stalwart-class - 20 Dodge Chance (Smaller of all frigate types)

Paris-class - 15 Dodge Chance (Heavily armed and armoured vessel)

Charon-class - 10 Dodge Chance (It has a marine deck after all)

 

 

7) Add 'Evasive manuevers' ability to Halberd-class. Incoming damage decreased greatly for 5 seconds with medium speed boost. But also it's accuracy decreased too.

 

8) Make 'shield recharge' ability for Autumn not so colorful. Now it's like warp rift opened inside the vessel with all consequences (warp storm, madness and painful death).

 

9) Make Flood more interesting and deadly. Their tentacles are not so long to catch me now.  In 0.56.1 it was more... uncomfortable and disturbing. 


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#32 Fleet Admiral agigabyte

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 12:28 PM

3, I believe is Sins screwing up the mod.

As for power, http://tvtropes.org/...aylorTechnology
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#33 베이클라이트

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 12:32 PM

Suggestions:

 

1) Increase ODPs main gun firepower and range, but decrease their fire rate and available number for all types of planets, except asteroids. Increase their HPs and/or armor and add weak-medium point defence cannons to fight incoming aircraft. Perhaps, increase their overall price in titanium and credits. Huge MACs walls looks really impressive, but unrealistic and something  prompts me that UNSC have not so many free space, resources and personell on planets to sustain all of them. Also, despite their lack of strenght... now it's kinda unfair to Covenant. Helixes AA also would be useful only against small number of fighters and bombers due to their range and... damage. Now there is nothing more effective (Price-Quality) to counter aircraft than your own aircraft.  

 

And I've never seen so many ODPs in Halo, like here. As far I know, there are clusters from ~5 MACs above significant objects on the planet. So, looks like both balance and Lore are not broken.

 

If we are beeing realistic then ODP's Should only be available for Reach and Earth. And Cap the amount at Reach at 50 ODP'S and Earth at what was it 200?.

Realisticly those things would need a planetbase reactor and shit... so lowering the count for any planet beside asteroid dosent make any really sense.

 

just my 2 cents.


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#34 Battlemage1

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 12:45 PM

If we are beeing realistic then ODP's Should only be available for Reach and Earth. And Cap the amount at Reach at 50 ODP'S and Earth at what was it 200?.

Realisticly those things would need a planetbase reactor and shit... so lowering the count for any planet beside asteroid dosent make any really sense.

 

just my 2 cents.

If you understand limits, so there are no problems. Lame excuses on my opinion. Now there are really too many ODPs without any anti-fighter protection. Bad decision in Lore and Balance. After all, Sins is about ship battles.

 

-Tesla generators are perspective. But many of them will kill your ozon layer and, eventually planet faster than Covenant will find it. That's why we in Russia build missiles. Cheap, easy to produce, store and launch. Push the button and all filth is dead, doesn't matter who they were and where they stood.

 

 

In HALO many things don't have any sense, but you like it. I'm only telling about fair competition and aesthetic look for planet defences with increased effectivness. Also, this have players to THINK before BUILD. Now good friend of mine just BUILD the WALL and NOTHING can DEMOLISH IT. He is smart enough to have many fighters.

 

 

Also, when I said about faction balance. This friend use halcyons and orions to break Covenant in any pose he wants. Perhaps, he's more crazy evil Russian than I.

I'm building many types of ships and micro control them and what? When I tactically fail, he says that my tactics were invalid, sends 100 Halcyons, Autumns, Orions, Valiants (1 for Buff) and Putins and STORMS everyone everywhere. Sometimes he getting back with cup of tea and asks me 'It's OK there? I was absent".

No, I don't mean that these classes are OP, but they're work. 

You wanted 1:3 of Covies and UNSC? You got it, but half of all units are killed now. That is about I was talking. It would be great if all units will have their features and pluses to build. No such feauters have less than half of UNSC fleet. For Alpha it's OK, but there are space to grow.


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#35 Bornstellaris

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 01:11 PM

I'm not 100% on the balance aspects of the mod, but I'm pretty sure that the balance is still designed in such a way that Covenant need to hit the UNSC hard early game and that it becomes much harder to counter the UNSC during late game. Cole or anyone else, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Why does the Orion need a new texture? What's the problem with it?

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#36 Battlemage1

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 01:29 PM

I'm not 100% on the balance aspects of the mod, but I'm pretty sure that the balance is still designed in such a way that Covenant need to hit the UNSC hard early game and that it becomes much harder to counter the UNSC during late game. Cole or anyone else, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Why does the Orion need a new texture? What's the problem with it?

Why did you make 2 new textures for Orion and Halcyon? I don't know. I remember the picture. 

 

 

About balance. Excuse me, what interest in winning for 5 minutes or awaiting death? Are equal chances with different strategies during all match somehow... worse? Of course, Covies can break UNSC even in late game with Infinity before them, but... chances aren't equal if UNSC player is really good. UNSC can smash through all resistance mush easier, because their Legions are without number and fear. Covies also can overrun them, but not both them and their defences.

 

Thing is not that space americans are overpowered, but that there are still things to think about. As I see how carefully you go this way, I'm sure that you'll find the golden mean... But something that like bright blurs already now.

A little bit underpowered Shiva, crazy number of paperweight ODPs, ships' stats that seems a bit illogical in comparison. Also, lack of features for neccessarity to buy ships like  frigates, destroyers, Saharas and Marathons. 'BUY-SEND'

 

Covenant... they should find something for surgical strikes and special ops, they're too brute now. They can't assault UNSC defenses directly, but can send aircraft and wait. 

 

Now there are balance, yes. Named problems can be solved with ease, but no interesting ways to do that. Once again, 'BUY-SEND'.

 

I more concerned about new logo, than ship name.

 

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#37 SiRD31M0S

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 01:53 PM

1) Increase ODPs main gun firepower and range, but decrease their fire rate and available number for all types of planet

I honestly agree that some planets could use a reduction in tactical slots, but the ODP's stats don't need to be messed with. Covie capitals get focused down quickly enough as it is.

Huge MACs walls looks really impressive, but unrealistic and something prompts me that UNSC have not so many free space, resources and personell on planets to sustain all of them.

But I suppose having infinite fleets constantly being thrown at the enemy makes more practical sense than a few hundred people to man a few dozen platforms. Okay.

Also, despite their lack of strenght... now it's kinda unfair to Covenant.

Didn't they used to one-shot Assault Carriers? The Covenant can fucking cry about it while they're busy taking six or more shots to die now.

Same thing about frigates... Charon, Paris and likely Stalwart have light MACs, which must be powered equally and deal equal damage.

No. As has already been explained to you, each of these ships has its own unique role in combat. Giving each of them equal capability would completely obviate the Paris. There would be no reason to build anything but a swarm of omnicidal Stalwarts. Please don't make balance suggestions if you don't understand the balance.

Add different dodge buffs to all small ships: corvettes, frigates. They move faster, have better turn rate and smaller size. They were build with additional manueverability in exchange for heavier armor and devastating weaponry.
Directed energy weapon unlikely have 100% accuracy in this case... In balance... this measure will increase bad survival rate of frigates and corvettes and make their lives a little bit longer. Interesting feature to the mod.

Remember Iroquois, how long it avoided all incoming fire, being not even a frigate, but entire destroyer!

COLE, WHERE'S MY KEYES LOOP, I WANT MY DODGE META.

Of course, Covies can break UNSC even in late game with Infinity before them, but... chances aren't equal if UNSC player is really good.

Asymmetrical balance is asymmetrical? God forbid.
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#38 Battlemage1

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 01:56 PM

S F I R, before this (second) post you already might understood that I don't hear your suggestions to me ) Of course, I'd like to chat, but not here. 

 

Here I'm expressing mine. People may agree with me or not. It's just another point for devs and nothing more. Those Parises might be much stronger in anti-ship combat. Reason? Yes, it is. If vessel not supposed to combat, even 5 light MACs won't make it better than it's specialized counterpart. Balance should be smart, with interesting features. 

 

I just hope that some fixes will be implemented and some features added.


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#39 Sev

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 02:59 PM

Battlemage, be aware trying to balance all the ships to this point now has been a bitch. Especially the Paris since (I'm sure you remember) the Paris was too quickly replaced by the Halberd to do anything useful. This is the best solution for the time being.

On the same topic, all frigates are different prices, so if they had the same MAC damage then people will either spam Charons for their cost or Stalwarts for their versatility. For a frigate, durability means nothing.

I have to agree about SMAC damage. In a recent game I was able to rush several UNSC worlds before my fleets got destroyed. I liked it better when they one-shot caps but that's my two cents.

The card damage is NOTHING to go by, since it shows the damage per second, not damage per shot, and even if a weapon shoots once every second it's not accurate either. Perhaps the Valiant does more damage than you think. Either way, the Valiant is more of a support vessel where it needs a fleet to be truly effective.
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#40 Richard

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 03:26 PM

I think the SMAC are perfect as they are. They are really strong if used well and suported by little home fleet of example...Stalward or Saber hangar to counter a part of the massive convie swarm. I really prefer to have the actual really good SMAC than the previous one that took over 9000! To shot again. A convie AI is too retard to deal with the SMAC that I think we all know but the AI as always been stupid in sins. It will alway retreat when it win and blablabla I can say a lots more about how stupid they are.

 

On the paris side they are perfect as they are right now. The addition of the missile barage make them really usefull to have around and that even when you have the Halcyon and the Destroyer. They can be build FAST, they are kinda Quick and they still have a decent punch for a REALLY cheap price.They are my way to go early game when I have a convie pushing on my line and even late game the time I can have my Punic Fleet to redeploy.

 

Also...Please the convie are really strong right now even late game. Stop playing again AI and find people to play with. You will see how strong and how bad you will need to 50 SMAC on your planet to hold them off.

 

You also have to think this is a RTS not an actual D&D in space where everything need to be accurate. What matter here is balance and good role for each ship to have wich is also why having the Stalward, Charon and Paris with different mac damage is good to have or having a Ship like the Valiant as a support ship even if it was kinda more a heavy hitter in the lore. Because having a Marathon + Autum + Valiant +Orion as heavy hitter would be useless. Too many ship for the same role and I think the team did well to give them each a nice role for each of them to take care off.

 

For you all the Marathon hatter... It is actually really good in the first 45 min of your game as they barely cost more than an Halcyon and do a lots more damage on the field. Use your ship wisely and in the proper way and you will find a use for every single of them.






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