26 replies to this topic

[SPECTRE]

7 of the last 9 statuses were on brexit.

 

Insaene was ... well ... insane enough to invoke the ritual of my return (you should have never mentioned my name).

 

I live in anglia, a region that has been fucked over by various EU policies.

 

I am also a soldier, and was assigned NATO to work with the European Defence Agency (EDA) (which was the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever put up with.)

 

So why In?

• Spoiler

  • Secure cultural funding ( Only if it promoted Europe and not Britain, England, Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland, or any other nation).
  • Economy (Supposedly).
  • Trade (Fair do's but we don't like TTIP, and we already have trade deals with most countries before EU anyway, we plan to stay in EEA)
  • "Be part of something bigger"
  • "National Defence" (this made me laugh when people used this).
  • SCIENCE! (this is actually a fair point but even Israel are taking part in CERN)
  • Eurovision (Is this a good thing?)
  • Insert space here for something that i may have forgot
  • Increased labour costs for certain jobs if we vote out(taken but see below)
  • ???

 

So why Out?

Spoiler

 

 

• If the EU lobbied to join itself, it would not be able to join for not being democratic enough.
• Common Agricultural Policy in unfair to Better performing agricultural Countries:
  Spoiler

  Why should over productive farmers have their surplus taken away from them at cost price  and destroyed  when someone in Spain takes EU subsidiaries for growing nothing? This resulted doubled food prices in Britain (younger generations can use freddo example as its tripled) This hit the poorest the hardest, we could at least give that shit to countries in famine (I can actually drive through Essex some days and it just wreaks of pigs being burnt by the thousands.) 
• Common fisheries policies are unfair also 
  Spoiler

  Basically the EU set a quota that was way too low, meaning fishing towns died overnight, certain parts of UK territorial waters can no longer be fished by UK fishermen, Spain lobbied for these fishing grounds and got them, so now we have Spanish megatrawlers fishing off our coast.
• Better long term projections for economy (yeh it was bound to dip by a bit)
• Pursue preferable Trade deals with commonwealth countries. 
• Obama threatened us (we don't take to kindly to threats, and he renegaded on this anyway)
• Securing borders.
• Reduction of property prices.
• Improved wages for certain industries(see above)
• Reduction of red tape (Its going to be easier to negotiate our own trade deal with the US)
• Reduce economic leakages

 

[SPECTRE]

Also on brexit: People don't understand democracy or what they're voting for.

 

"I'm ashamed of my country, siding with racists "<?>

 

"Old people Ruined everything, they shouldn't be able to vote."

 

"Old people don't know anything"

 

"Trust BBC to go to <The town that i reside in> and speak to some uneducated morons who think Britain is something we should be proud of"

 

"Fucking uneducated people voting leave, go out and get a degree" <this person has never had a real job and is doing a degree in racial studies>

 

"Old people are nazis"

 

"Yu wankers vouted out 20 yars ago y vote out now?" <sic> <sic> <sic> <sic>

 

"Never felt so ashamed "

 

"Fuck everyone aged above 30"

 

<Personal or physical Attack on people for voting leave, get arrested and calls the police nazis>

[SternuS]

There's only one thing I'd like to bring to light:

 

In Italy we recently had regionals, which are elections to govern over regions like Rome, Milan, Bologna, Naple etc. (regions=cities). In these elections, the 30% of people went to vote. The 30% of the people that have the rights to vote expressed their will. And no one, and I repeat, NO ONE gave two fucks about it. A minor article on a lesser popular newspaper and that was it. Democracy won, yay!

 

Now, with the BRexit referendum, people went to check the ages of those who voted leave, then checked the percentage of those people on the total population divided the square root of yadda yadda yadda

"This wasn't democratic because those who must live the longest with the referendum have voted against it".

 

So when the democracy stuff is useful, we're all friends; but when it isn't useful, it suddenly becomes not democratic?

[DGaius]

So when the democracy stuff is useful, we're all friends; but when it isn't useful, it suddenly becomes not democratic?

I am not sure whether or not this was rhetoric, but yes this is how it works in the modern political climate. 

 

Since this topic is political in nature and since I have yet to see ANY decent discussion in any medium at all (even regular conversation) I will try and monitor this topic very closely. I will not censor, but know you are under scrutiny. Specte has tried his best to highlight pros and cons of Brexit. Sternus is starting a great discussion on democracy in relation to Brexit. Both great topics, interesting topics and also topics that need discussion IMO. So keep it civil is all I am saying.

[SternuS]

I am not sure whether or not this was rhetoric, but yes this is how it works in the modern political climate. 

 

Since this topic is political in nature and since I have yet to see ANY decent discussion in any medium at all (even regular conversation) I will try and monitor this topic very closely. I will not censur, but know you are under scrutiny. Specte has tried his best to highlight pros and cons of Brexit. Sternus is starting a great discussion on democracy in relation to Brexit. Both great topics, interesting topcis and also topics that need discussion IMO. So keep it civil is all I am saying.

Yes that was rhetoric, but with a moderate respect of rant.

 

I'm a bit of a anti-democratic person, or that's what someone who doesn't know me personally might think, since I'm always against the modern-day politics. Now I won't venture into the world of "The Politics" since I know very little of it, but as a citizen with the rigth to vote, I have to express my disregard to the socio-political situation that I live in.

 

Why? Because, and here we go a little OT, the italian premier has not been elected!!!!!!!! And not only the current prime minister, this goes back to 2011, after Berlusconi was dethroned by the "left" (here the political situation is divided, generally, in "left" that "represents" the "democracy - progressists" - note the abuse of quotes - and "right" that "represents" the "conservatives") and we couldn't decide over a new candidate; then the President of the Republic created a govern of coalition, consisting of members from both the left and right, but it was not meant to be and again the government couldn't achieve the votes to continue operating; then again the President put up another governemnt of coalition, which the now-premier promptly got ahead of with a coup d'etat that nobody noticed.

 

The problem is that it's been three governments that I have NOT VOTED FOR and we have to stand under their will. So you can see why I am debating the "democracy" that everyone seems to love - up until it goes against the will of those with the power to decide wether something is democratic or not (and I am not part of that group, in case you were wondering).

 

So, this rant aside, I think BRexit is a necessary step to the evolution of the EU. We will see the pros and the cons that this decision has created, and we will act accordingly to solve the issues at hand. So I'm not one of those terrified by this situation.

[DGaius]

Now I won't venture into the world of "The Politics" since I know very little of it, but as a citizen with the rigth to vote, I have to express my disregard to the socio-political situation that I live in.

And even so, similarly to the EU topic we had ages ago, I have yet to see you make a 'nonsense' argument. 

 

 

So, this rant aside, I think BRexit is a necessary step to the evolution of the EU. We will see the pros and the cons that this decision has created, and we will act accordingly to solve the issues at hand. So I'm not one of those terrified by this situation.

While I can certainly imagine many Eu citizen will find this a necessary step, I feel it is a waste of time and effort. The UK leaving does not change the inner workings of the EU bodies and it may or may not change the political status of the UK world wide. With which I mean that the lack of certainty and the overal small victory of the 'leave' camp are neglectable on a world wide scale. I agree it is a great test to see whether or not the EU has benefits. And for this purpose I am all in for not negotiating with the UK. It's our terms or no terms. Meaning they sign whatever treaty we come up with or no treaty at all. Only then can we clearly see whether or not the EU has benefits. If we negotiate, the chance may exist some of the benefits rub off. And even then, the UK has always had a 'special snowflake' position. Their leaving may not carry the appropriate impact to change things at all. Now if Germany were to leave the EU...Hence the waste of time and effort. Which is a shame because a lot of the points mentioned by Spectre in the 'Why out' section are valid points of criticism. And we should debate per country what we really want from the EU. Brexit thusfar, has only deluted the discussion. 

[SPECTRE]

...Since this topic is political in nature and since I have yet to see ANY decent discussion in any medium at all (even regular conversation) I will try and monitor this topic very closely. I will not censor, but know you are under scrutiny. Specte has tried his best to highlight pros and cons of Brexit. Sternus is starting a great discussion on democracy in relation to Brexit. Both great topics, interesting topics and also topics that need discussion IMO. So keep it civil is all I am saying.

 

Fair do's as I've seen quite a few personal attacks on people over this, namely people who voted to leave, but i've also seen the other side, my parents both got clocked outside the polling station and were threatened with arrest for "Preventing the democratic process". Because someone who was voting stay asked them what they voted, and two friends who own a farm pulled up outside a polling station in tractors with leave written on the side, voted, and were arrested for intimidation and preventing the democratic process. (They had shotguns in the cab of their Tractors)

Why? Because, and here we go a little OT, the italian premier has not been elected!!!!!!!! And not only the current prime minister, this goes back to 2011, after Berlusconi was dethroned by the "left" (here the political situation is divided, generally, in "left" that "represents" the "democracy - progressists" - note the abuse of quotes - and "right" that "represents" the "conservatives") and we couldn't decide over a new candidate; then the President of the Republic created a govern of coalition, consisting of members from both the left and right, but it was not meant to be and again the government couldn't achieve the votes to continue operating; then again the President put up another governemnt of coalition, which the now-premier promptly got ahead of with a coup d'etat that nobody noticed.

...

So, this rant aside, I think BRexit is a necessary step to the evolution of the EU. We will see the pros and the cons that this decision has created, and we will act accordingly to solve the issues at hand. So I'm not one of those terrified by this situation.

I got labelled as a rightist neo nazi by a student whilst on my lunch break. TBH, if i could vote for a government that would make no more new laws and not screw with the budget, I would vote for them, i would. To be fair, the particular sub culture that i live in does come across as highly authoritarian in nature, but its all based on merit and experience rather than who has the largest gob. 

 

Agreed, I think a wave of referendums will sweep across the EU. Will they vote leave too? Probably not. But they will probably institute reforms.

 

While I can certainly imagine many Eu citizen will find this a necessary step, I feel it is a waste of time and effort. The UK leaving does not change the inner workings of the EU bodies and it may or may not change the political status of the UK world wide. With which I mean that the lack of certainty and the overal small victory of the 'leave' camp are neglectable on a world wide scale. I agree it is a great test to see whether or not the EU has benefits. And for this purpose I am all in for not negotiating with the UK. It's our terms or no terms. Meaning they sign whatever treaty we come up with or no treaty at all. Only then can we clearly see whether or not the EU has benefits. If we negotiate, the chance may exist some of the benefits rub off. And even then, the UK has always had a 'special snowflake' position. Their leaving may not carry the appropriate impact to change things at all. Now if Germany were to leave the EU...Hence the waste of time and effort. Which is a shame because a lot of the points mentioned by Spectre in the 'Why out' section are valid points of criticism. And we should debate per country what we really want from the EU. Brexit thusfar, has only deluted the discussion. 

As in my above comment to sternus.

 

Non negotiation is acceptable for those wanting to join but not wanting to stay? EU bent over backward to get Iceland to join.

[Crisiss]

The real takeaway from this is that one of the biggest member states of the EU has left. The EU can't act like unilateral dickheads anymore, because they will piss off all of their members and they can and will leave. They now know they have to play their cards carefully in order to keep it from splintering. A fractured EU isn't ideal but it is entirely the fault of the organization for not listening or considering the impact their rules, laws, regulations, and decrees have.

Glad the UK left, honestly.

[DGaius]

As in my above comment to sternus.

 

Non negotiation is acceptable for those wanting to join but not wanting to stay? EU bent over backward to get Iceland to join.

My primary reason for non negotiation is scientific. Eliminate all those variables that could interfere with a correct (in a scientific way) comparison. For example: Where an EU member can freely trade, the UK should now not be able to trade or trade with restrictions. My secondary reason is more personal. The UK has always had a special position within the EU. Other countries have always been fairly ok with this. We're tolerant afterall. So Brexit feels like a big Fuck You to the rest of Europe. I know it's not anything personal and I know it's more aimed at the bureaucrats or whatever evil entity you guys see in Brussels. Still, this would be the best way IMO to send a strong message to those who pay back our tolerance with the finger.

 

I highly disagree with the EU expansion policy. I have no idea why they went as far as they did to get Iceland to join. Or the Balkans, or the larger area of Eastern Europe for that matter. To me the EU has always been about western and northern Europe. As a founding member Italy is surely welcome, but you have to admit the cultural differences between west/north and south/east are rather large.

 

The real takeaway from this is that one of the biggest member states of the EU has left. The EU can't act like unilateral dickheads anymore, because they will piss off all of their members and they can and will leave. They now know they have to play their cards carefully in order to keep it from splintering. A fractured EU isn't ideal but it is entirely the fault of the organization for not listening or considering the impact their rules, laws, regulations, and decrees have.

 

Define 'big' and then define 'biggest member states of the EU'. I think the definition of that would be France or Germany. Not the UK.

 

The EU doesn't always act as unilateral dickheads. On the contrary they mean well and show it by asking for ideas in member states and by looking for local projects to support (which they do). The sad thing is that lobbyist are usually the ones answering. The naïvity of EU bureaucrats and politicians and poor national coördination of member states is more to blame here. The poor basterds in Brussels are so far removed from the people they think they represent, they wouldn't even be able to tell a circle from a square. Let alone the (for example) dutch lobbies. National government has a lobby, provinces have their own lobbies and even some local counties have lobbies. Sometimes they work together, other times they fight for privilige. See the mess this has become, thanks to the wonderfull world of modern day politics?

[SPECTRE]

My primary reason for non negotiation is scientific. Eliminate all those variables that could interfere with a correct (in a scientific way) comparison. For example: Where an EU member can freely trade, the UK should now not be able to trade or trade with restrictions. My secondary reason is more personal. The UK has always had a special position within the EU. Other countries have always been fairly ok with this. We're tolerant afterall. So Brexit feels like a big Fuck You to the rest of Europe. I know it's not anything personal and I know it's more aimed at the bureaucrats or whatever evil entity you guys see in Brussels. Still, this would be the best way IMO to send a strong message to those who pay back our tolerance with the finger.

 

I highly disagree with the EU expansion policy. I have no idea why they went as far as they did to get Iceland to join. Or the Balkans, or the larger area of Eastern Europe for that matter. To me the EU has always been about western and northern Europe. As a founding member Italy is surely welcome, but you have to admit the cultural differences between west/north and south/east are rather large.

 

Define 'big' and then define 'biggest member states of the EU'. I think the definition of that would be France or Germany. Not the UK.

 

The EU doesn't always act as unilateral dickheads. On the contrary they mean well and show it by asking for ideas in member states and by looking for local projects to support (which they do). The sad thing is that lobbyist are usually the ones answering. The naïvity of EU bureaucrats and politicians and poor national coördination of member states is more to blame here. The poor basterds in Brussels are so far removed from the people they think they represent, they wouldn't even be able to tell a circle from a square. Let alone the (for example) dutch lobbies. National government has a lobby, provinces have their own lobbies and even some local counties have lobbies. Sometimes they work together, other times they fight for privilige. See the mess this has become, thanks to the wonderfull world of modern day politics?

Special position? this is the first of it. I admit we've always been the awkward one in the corner, as we don't consider ourselves on the European continent, or see our culture as one of being European.I wouldn't say its aimed at Bureaucrats solely but something that i can't place the word on in English or translate from my native tongue. 

 

The word is ricce (Pronounced like German Reich (Not deliberate that one)) it broadly means power holders, the area and the people. We've just been taken for granted too long, and what EU felt was best for the continent wasn't always best for these two islands. Whenever we've kicked up a fuss about whatever we've always been told to shut up silly old britain, as its for the "greater good" at our own expense.

 

I think i get what Crisis means, we're the most politically influential country in Europe, and debatably  the  world (if you exclude being able to lever people through cutting off trade or flexing the muscles of our military (thank fuck). and the most influential country economically. We may have dipped in the stock market, but France and Germany got off worse.

 

I somewhat agree with the last statement, as i said they have a "greater good" mentality which us brits just don't have. You need to look out for yourself before you can look out for other people, hence another reason.

The lobbies are terrible, because they fund EU students at British universities (this bumped up British tuition fee costs) students seem to think that if we leave the EU, they'll loose their own funding. Majority of  the stats for the campaign were actually done by EU funded departments which were bound to be bias to those that pay you're wages.

[DGaius]

Special position? this is the first of it. I admit we've always been the awkward one in the corner, as we don't consider ourselves on the European continent, or see our culture as one of being European.I wouldn't say its aimed at Bureaucrats solely but something that i can't place the word on in English or translate from my native tongue.

Yes, special position. On a side note and off topic, where does this idea come from that UK folks are awkward or different from the mainland? You have a partly shared history with the Scandinavians have you not? Nonetheless some concrete examples are to be presented here and I unfortunately only know one by heart, because it amazed me a few years ago during my 'Europe centered' semester.

 

You were the first and for a long time the only country in the EU to get a discount on membership. Here's a bunch of stats of 2014: https://en.wikipedia...ions_.282014.29 alternatively, here are a few more numbers from 2007, which also show this 'rebate': http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/8036097.stm (mind the payment and rebate buttons above the article). Now before Crisis comes in and berates me for 'belitteling' his argument about how big the UK's influence is big, take into account the following data off 2015: https://fullfact.org...fee-55-million/ You can see here that the UK paid about 5.5 billion euro as a contribution. Taken from a populace that is around 64 million people large.

On the other hand we have the Netherlands, who paid about 4,7 billion (see here for the calculations including the rebate: https://www.europa-n...kost_europa_ons ) with a populace off roughly 17 million.

 

Who's complaining about the expenses of the EU again? Well guess my country too, since we get a rebate too since 2007. And we're not the only one anymore...

 

 

The word is ricce (Pronounced like German Reich (Not deliberate that one)) it broadly means power holders, the area and the people. We've just been taken for granted too long, and what EU felt was best for the continent wasn't always best for these two islands. Whenever we've kicked up a fuss about whatever we've always been told to shut up silly old britain, as its for the "greater good" at our own expense.

Would something like 'the ruling elite' apply? Because it sounds similar in description. I am also not sure whether or not the EU is taking anyone for granted, but I can understand why you would think/feel this way. Having said that, I didn't think the Brits had feelings. Or at least you guys never show them right? Jokes aside I again do not understand the continent vs island mentality. It's a barrier between your ears and nowhere else. In the end, you are still connected to the same earth crust and you share the same amount of DNA with me as you do with your neighbours. It again comes down to who does the lobby and who writes part of the bill. This is unfortunately very similar to how Congress works in the USA. It could not get any less democratic, at all. A lot of policies are rather simple minded and protect only one certain area of interest (usually for one single company too). The problems arising from this are felt everywhere. Which makes this another fine example of not adressing the issue. You are not the only one with this issue. Member states should very much discuss on what they want from the EU. Many tasks these days are counterproductive to what the EU has to do. Though I do love the fact the EU police forces are working together. Back in the day (I grew up in a bordertown), criminals would head over to Belgium and get away with whatever crime they did. Imagine how silly that would be in todays current globalisation. I think this is a prime example of the greater good, no?

 

 

I think i get what Crisis means, we're the most politically influential country in Europe, and debatably  the  world (if you exclude being able to lever people through cutting off trade or flexing the muscles of our military (thank fuck). and the most influential country economically. We may have dipped in the stock market, but France and Germany got off worse.

I can agree with this. France, Germany and the UK are the powerhouses when it comes down to it. Particularly Germany at the moment, thanks to it's thriving economy. I won't deny the UK's military power. And for this reason it's a shame you're leaving. The EU would've been taken a lot more serious with this in mind. Luckily we still have NATO.

[SPECTRE]

Yes, special position. On a side note and off topic, where does this idea come from that UK folks are awkward or different from the mainland? You have a partly shared history with the Scandinavians have you not? Nonetheless some concrete examples are to be presented here and I unfortunately only know one by heart, because it amazed me a few years ago during my 'Europe centered' semester.

 

No i wasn't sure what you meant by special position, you're going to have to elaborate.

 

Plundering/Imperial/Colonial past. I'm the first member of my fathers lineage in 6 generations / 180 years to actually be born in the UK despite being almost entirely Anglian (bar a Finnish and Unknown Indigenous Canadian ancestor).

 

"Shared" is one way to put it. Its very long. But were settled by people who live in what is now Denmark. They have a loose alliance against other Danes who would come to raid. Eradicate the Danes eventually. Form a joint culture. The high king at one point held united Anglo-Saxon areas, Norway and Denmark.

 

But yeh we have never considered ourselves danish ancestors. Since angles ans Saxons integrated quite well.

There are some Key features. though, each of the old kingdoms are basically areas now, with intensely different cultures, and languages.

Anglia here in the east, Mercia in the north, Wessex in the south,  Northumbria in the northern border.

 

Anglia has had a growing "resistance" to other cultures for some time now. We've accepted everyone from american loyalists, Irish loyalists, Chileans and most recently Hong kongers. Yep fine. 

 

But we're very "closed" here, we're friendly to people in help, but strangers who don't need help are treated with suspicion. And when you catch two fellows climbing over you're fence who "NO spek Englishes" to get somewhere its got a bit far.

 

Every village is different with differing traditions. But as a whole pretty alike. But so different to other parts of England, yet alone Scotland or even Europe.

[SPECTRE]

Re/negotiations won't start this year? Sounds good.

 

Let the animosity from Europhiles die down and assure them its not strictly personal, but also just plain old business and politics.

 

Got those trade deals lined up yo.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36841066

[mmeier]

Re/negotiations won't start this year? Sounds good.

 

Let the animosity from Europhiles die down and assure them its not strictly personal, but also just plain old business and politics.

 

Got those trade deals lined up yo.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-36841066

 

Probably the best thing the PM could do, considering that the Brexiteers didn't have any kind of plan in the drawer. Severing all the ties (or renegotiating them) will take a hell of a lot of time. Then again: Wouldn't it be in everyone's interest to get this thing through as fast as possible, to keep the time of uncertainty as small as they can? Plus: At least until the UK hands in the §50 notice, they are full blown members of the EU, but at the same time everyone knows that the UK wants out. That's going to make for some awkward situations.

 

I know from personal experience that it's already having repercussions in academia, where nobody is currently willing to engage in projects with UK universities because nobody knows how it is all going to turn out. The same goes for guest researchers in both directions. One could have wished for just a tad more contingency planing.

 

If it didn't have such a large potential for large scale screw ups, I would actually say I'm curios to see how all of this works out. Especially now that Johnson is Foreign Secretary.

[SPECTRE]

Taking it slow is the right approach.

Ultimately voting out has had another effect, one very important to me:

The U.K. Will be getting new nuclear missile subs, and nuclear weapons will be continued to be used as a deterrent.

Academia shouldn't have been so reliant on EU funding anyway, TBH I'm really not fussed about study's as to which percentage of men prefer reclining chairs to non reclining chairs. Besides we will still be a part of CERN and ESA.

Besides everyone in the world who has even the slightest knowledge that Ox-Bridge are two of the best universities out there. I couldn't even name on university on the continent that is good.

And why does no one abroad understand Boris "the boy" Johnsons appointment to foreign minister?

It's natrial fit, being mayor of London is more like being ambassador and foreign minister for a city state.

[SPECTRE]

So what objectives has Brexit met so far?

 

 

• Better long term projections for economy (yeh it was bound to dip by a bit)

Status: achieved. Resulted in the FTSE 100 Being the highest in over a year, it has also freed up market freedom, resulting in more investment from commonwealth countries, and first time investment from home.

• Pursue preferable Trade deals with commonwealth countries. 

Status: Pending. Resulted in USA, India, China, Japan, Australia, Canada. Guess who doesn't have trade deals with these nations? the EU. You know who else wants trade deals with the uk? Germany, which means trade deal with the whole EU.

• Reduction of property prices.

Status: completed, and still continuing. Property prices have dropped by 10-15%, banks are much more willing to loan money now.

[SPECTRE]

So what objectives has Brexit met so far?

 

 

• Better long term projections for economy (yeh it was bound to dip by a bit)

Status: achieved. Resulted in the FTSE 100 Being the highest in over a year, it has also freed up market freedom, resulting in more investment from commonwealth countries, and first time investment from home.

• Pursue preferable Trade deals with commonwealth countries. 

Status: Pending. Resulted in USA, India, China, Japan, Australia, Canada. Guess who doesn't have trade deals with these nations? the EU. You know who else wants trade deals with the uk? Germany, which means trade deal with the whole EU.

• Reduction of property prices.

Status: completed, and still continuing. Property prices have dropped by 10-15%, banks are much more willing to loan money now.

[sloosecannon]

I love having this wonderful source of anti-EU propaganda available just a click away

[DGaius]

Come on Spectre, back up those claims with actual economical forecasts, twofold news reports (in the case of those trade agreements with germany, both an English and German news source) and anecdotal examples (those are the best). Thusfar they're empty claims. The Dutch have many trade agreements with Chinese corporations, we're a trading nation.

Spoiler

duh

 

I've been looking for a couple of great examples of the 'special position' I claimed the UK to have. I have been unsuccesfull in finding the source, so untill I find it (and I will, I had a physical copy of it somewhere) I am keeping a low profile in this discusion.

[SPECTRE]

I love having this wonderful source of anti-EU propaganda available just a click away

You be welcome, I could always video some farmers having mental breakdowns from being "over the quota" of the EUs milk production, or cattle and crops being burnt by the tonne to meet EU quotas to prevent a surplus resulting in the UK wrecking any agricultural computing in Europe.

Edit in: Burning the surplus is also illegal under EU law. But the money that they're given is cost price on a world basis. (IE the lowest it would cost to cultivate in the world). So they can't dispose of this surplus anyway.