37 replies to this topic

[Antigeist]

As much as I was hoping to be able to amass a horde of Assault Carriers with which to exact my terrible vengeance, I understand the choice to make it the Rebellion titan. It's similar in size to the Infinity so it makes sense. That being said, I don't know much of Halo lore outside the games and the one book I read, The Fall of Reach, and that was years ago. What other Covenant ships are classified as capitals in the mod? I feel like from the games, you don't see much besides (1) assault carriers; (2) Truth & Reconciliation-class cruisers (CCS?); (3) the Corvettes from Reach; (4) the modified cruisers with a similar model that show up in Halo 4; and (5) the Abomination.

 

I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to learn that the Covenant lore contains ships that are still very massive, but smaller than an assault carrier. What other capitals do the Covenant get to play with?

[Moustachio86]

Currently in game are:

Spoiler

• DDS-Class which is a the coloniser, arguably the weakest of the ships (see below). Your starting capital ship. 

• The Super-Cruiser which specialises in long range combat and has devastating weapons but very low health.

• The Super-Destroyer which is a powerhouse, a devastating battleship.

• The CAS which is much like an upgraded super-destroyer, and can currently colonise planets making it a small fleet by itself. 

Both functions and models are faithful to canon where available at the moment. I don't personally know what the future direction is, there is debate around the Titan last I checked but the CAS is looking like a strong candidate. At the current moment the CAS remains a capital ship but future updates may change this. I suspect there may be more in the future but I would never place expectation on the devs where it isn't needed. Someone higher up may be able to clarify in more detail for you.

[Antigeist]

Currently in game are:

Spoiler

• DDS-Class which is a the coloniser, arguably the weakest of the ships (see below). Your starting capital ship. 

• The Super-Cruiser which specialises in long range combat and has devastating weapons but very low health.

• The Super-Destroyer which is a powerhouse, a devastating battleship.

• The CAS which is much like an upgraded super-destroyer, and can currently colonise planets making it a small fleet by itself. 

Both functions and models are faithful to canon where available at the moment. I don't personally know what the future direction is, there is debate around the Titan last I checked but the CAS is looking like a strong candidate. At the current moment the CAS remains a capital ship but future updates may change this. I suspect there may be more in the future but I would never place expectation on the devs where it isn't needed. Someone higher up may be able to clarify in more detail for you.

Nope, that was perfect. Thank you. Just wanted to satisfy my curiosity. Though I don't have a very comprehensive knowledge of lore outside the games, I'd taken a look at the wiki now and then and I could've guessed which ones might be viable candidates, but I was curious which ones had made the cut for the moment. I'm glad the Super-cruiser made it in, that one seems spiffy.

 

Is the Super-Destroyer the same as this guy? http://halo.wikia.co...nant_battleship

 

I think my attachment to the CAS is just that, while I'm a nerd for spaceships in general, I'm an extra nerd for huge spaceships. Something about the prospect of ships that are miles in length really stokes my imagination. Any game with big capital ships, I'm totally on board, and the bigger the better. The more huge capital ships there are, the happier I am. Hence my sadness that the CAS will probably be converted to the titan. I'll just have to build more Super-Destroyers and Super-cruisers to make up for it.

[Moustachio86]

Glad I could help.

 

Yeah, the super destroy is that to the best of my knowledge. The model for it is very similar. 

 

I know the feeling, but trust me. Even if you are restricted you won't miss it, the devs are a fantastic bunch and never fail to deliver. Whatever happens, you'll love it.

[sloosecannon]

Yep, covenant Titan is for debate. It will either be the CAS or there will be no Titan (of course we'll balance so they don't need one...)

[m468]

Bit of a curve ball but how about the Super Destroyer. I mean given what it did to Cole's battle group at Harvest and how rare it appearently was it could fit the bill.

[SPECTRE]

If it is set Post war then the covenant don't have any, as it says in glasslands and the thursday war all the arbiter could muster was a light cruiser (the sting ray like type) and the servants of abiding truth couldn't do much better.
I say no covie titan, i think the covie reign of terror has ended.

[Kevik70]

If it is set Post war then the covenant don't have any, as it says in glasslands and the thursday war all the arbiter could muster was a light cruiser (the sting ray like type) and the servants of abiding truth couldn't do much better.
I say no covie titan, i think the covie reign of terror has ended.

On the other hand this is just a game, and the focus should be on balance not a strict credence to the lore. (which mind you not even Bungie followed) Besides even with lore there were a few CAS - class assault carriers around still (the current ship for titan) like the Shadow of Intent and the ship mentioned in Thursday War and Glasslands.

 

And according to this page the Covenant Remnant is fielding at least 1 CAS. - http://halo.wikia.co...ovenant_Remnant  

[Rovert10]

On the other hand this is just a game, and the focus should be on balance not a strict credence to the lore. (which mind you not even Bungie followed) Besides even with lore there were a few CAS - class assault carriers around still (the current ship for titan) like the Shadow of Intent and the ship mentioned in Thursday War and Glasslands.

 

And according to this page the Covenant Remnant is fielding at least 1 CAS. - http://halo.wikia.co...ovenant_Remnant  

By that logic I'd say forgo lore and say that the Covenant still have tons of CAS classes and are still running around with them thus no Titan.

 

I am still in the boat saying that the Covenant need no Titan. A Titan is not a necessity because Rebellion has them. And besides there's no real way to justify that a CAS is equal to Infinity that isn't nonsensical even for a game.

[m468]

By that logic I'd say forgo lore and say that the Covenant still have tons of CAS classes and are still running around with them thus no Titan.

 

I am still in the boat saying that the Covenant need no Titan. A Titan is not a necessity because Rebellion has them. And besides there's no real way to justify that a CAS is equal to Infinity that isn't nonsensical even for a game.

The Halo 4 visual guide describes the Assault Carrier as being out matched by Infinity.... and there are only maybe two known to exist... Remember the Elites lost alot of ships fighting the Brutes in battles following the Battle of Instillation 00. 

[Bornstellaris]

I don't recall an Assualt Carrier ever being mentioned in Glasslands or Thursday War. If you're thinking of the Pious Inquisitor, that was a CCS class, not a CAS.

[m468]

I guess I should have said the premise was right on the Song of Retribution (Jul 'Mdama"s flagship). Now about the Shadow of Intent nothing is known. It may still belong to the Arbiter. However, as it was severely damaged by the flood I doubt that it is operational as the Sanghelii have no engineers and have learn to repair their ships. So that being said by the time of Halo 4 the only group of former covenant that has a working Assault Carrier is the Storm Covenant (Jul 'Mdama's faction). Other than them and the Kig Yar all the other members of the former Covenant are not an immediate threat to the UNSC. Now to cut off the "ONI is destabilizing the Sanghelii (the Arbiter's) so they are an immediate threat argument..." ONI is doing this to keep the Sanghelii (the Arbiter's) from becoming a serious threat meaning that they are not one yet. Which make sense as they do not have much of a fleet. If you wish for me to discuss this more I can let just move it to the Halo Lore section of the forum.

[Dianno5741]

Im for the super destroyer being the Titan or no Titan. My two cents.

[Kevik70]

By that logic I'd say forgo lore and say that the Covenant still have tons of CAS classes and are still running around with them thus no Titan.

 

I am still in the boat saying that the Covenant need no Titan. A Titan is not a necessity because Rebellion has them. And besides there's no real way to justify that a CAS is equal to Infinity that isn't nonsensical even for a game.

Yes a CAS may be no match for the Infinity but by that logic no covenant ship at this point will stand much chance to the UNSC if we go lore post 2552. Still for the vast portion of this mod UNSC will need 3 - 1 numerical superiority to win a fights. IF the covenant don't get a Titan they will stand less of a chance fighting back the UNSC post game and will be lacking in terms of firepower once the Forerunners get introduced. 

 

The Covenant gamewise need a central flagship, something that when killed comes right back at the same level as before (cuase thats how vanilla Titans roll, reg capital ships won't do that).  Cause everytime Infinity dies, guess what it comes back like nothing happened, and it has the power to kill any high level covie cap. 

[Rovert10]

Yes a CAS may be no match for the Infinity but by that logic no covenant ship at this point will stand much chance to the UNSC if we go lore post 2552. Still for the vast portion of this mod UNSC will need 3 - 1 numerical superiority to win a fights. IF the covenant don't get a Titan they will stand less of a chance fighting back the UNSC post game and will be lacking in terms of firepower once the Forerunners get introduced. 

 

The Covenant gamewise need a central flagship, something that when killed comes right back at the same level as before (cuase thats how vanilla Titans roll, reg capital ships won't do that).  Cause everytime Infinity dies, guess what it comes back like nothing happened, and it has the power to kill any high level covie cap. 

How so? You can use 16 freaking CAS if you wanted to. You get Infinity and shielded frigates/cruisers. Guess what you can field more CAS than just the single one. Nothing said we can't make the current CAS as powerful as a Titan CAS.

[Antigeist]

Im for the super destroyer being the Titan or no Titan. My two cents.

I think I'm in the same boat. I think it'd be much more fun to be able to build more than one. As someone mentioned, that does introduce the problem of what you do when the UNSC have a titan that retains its levels and all Covenant capitals get reset every time they die. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know if titan levels can be made to reset like other capitals, or if that means you use something else as a Covenant titan (but not the Abomination). But the CAS just doesn't strike me as a ship equivalent to the Infinity, in strength or in uniqueness. There's only one Infinity, but the Covenant at one time had at least several CAS and probably a lot more. I'm sure others know better exactly how many we're talking at any given point throughout the war. CAS feel analogous to something like U.S. Navy aircraft carriers; they're huge by comparison to other ships, insanely expensive, take forever to build, and can dish out tons of ordnance. While they're not everywhere, we have more than a couple and generally there's one at the heart of any naval strike force we send anywhere in the world.

 

That being said, I'll offer this caveat: I have never played a release of this game other than the public Entrenchment release and lack any experience to talk about what the Covenant need on any level other than what the 12 year old in me wants to see happen.

[Kevik70]

How so? You can use 16 freaking CAS if you wanted to. You get Infinity and shielded frigates/cruisers. Guess what you can field more CAS than just the single one. Nothing said we can't make the current CAS as powerful as a Titan CAS.

Well actually Titans get 3 upgraded zones (increased hp/armor/weapons damage/ shield you name it) and 4 abilities over a standard capitals ships 4 abilities, plus a titan gets 2 upgrade points every time it levels up for every one a capital ships gets. On top of that a Titan keeps its levels even after it dies. So if you telling me your willing to make every 16 CAS as powerful as a titan I have mentioned you may have serious balancing issues. 

 

I think the covie should get a titan, even if its only a CAS, technically you can have both, a standard CAS as a capital ship and the Upgraded CAS as a Titan. Of course you'd then only get 15 CASs roaming the map. 

[sloosecannon]

Just gonna jump right in and say...

So, the whole 1-3 is for SotP Rebellion's first release, which will have a little bit of an advantage for the UNSC, but not too much. It will also be the same timeframe as the Entrenchment releases

Once we add in the titans and other ships, it will be post halo 4. That means the 1-3 rule is completely thrown out - the ratio will be near 1-1 and Covenant players will need to strategize a lot to win. Currently, they can completely steamroll UNSC fleets, with very few losses, even late-game.

Putting the CAS as the titan would fit with the idea of them being a VERY rare ship. If we don't, we'll probably have to find a different way to limit the total number of CAS carriers that the Covenant can use, since they're so limited in numbers.
The SuperDestroyer would also work. I'd personally choose the CAS because it fills more of a flagship role in canon, but the destroyer would work too.

[Rovert10]

Well actually Titans get 3 upgraded zones (increased hp/armor/weapons damage/ shield you name it) and 4 abilities over a standard capitals ships 4 abilities, plus a titan gets 2 upgrade points every time it levels up for every one a capital ships gets. On top of that a Titan keeps its levels even after it dies. So if you telling me your willing to make every 16 CAS as powerful as a titan I have mentioned you may have serious balancing issues. 

 

I think the covie should get a titan, even if its only a CAS, technically you can have both, a standard CAS as a capital ship and the Upgraded CAS as a Titan. Of course you'd then only get 15 CASs roaming the map. 

I don't know about you but when UNSC ships are getting shields that are even better than Covenant by the time Infinity comes around the entire balance is skewed to the point where CAS isn't be all and end all like Infinity. 

[Kevik70]

Just gonna jump right in and say...

So, the whole 1-3 is for SotP Rebellion's first release, which will have a little bit of an advantage for the UNSC, but not too much. It will also be the same timeframe as the Entrenchment releases

Once we add in the titans and other ships, it will be post halo 4. That means the 1-3 rule is completely thrown out - the ratio will be near 1-1 and Covenant players will need to strategize a lot to win. Currently, they can completely steamroll UNSC fleets, with very few losses, even late-game.

Putting the CAS as the titan would fit with the idea of them being a VERY rare ship. If we don't, we'll probably have to find a different way to limit the total number of CAS carriers that the Covenant can use, since they're so limited in numbers.
The SuperDestroyer would also work. I'd personally choose the CAS because it fills more of a flagship role in canon, but the destroyer would work too.

 

That mean its 1-3 all game for the first release and then the 2 release makes it 1-1 for the whole game? Or are you planning on adding late game tech like UNSC gets shields and covie get much more fleet points to get their numbers up to par with UNSC. Cause it seems like a lot of wasted effort balancing a 3-1 fight just to redo it all just because of titans, at least thats how you make it seem in your post.