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Covenant mini-factions and Hero Units


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#1 Lord Stark

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 03:23 PM

Covenant Heros and Factions:

So essentially I propose that each faction have researchable one-time heroes that spawn when you choose a particular faction.  I'm working on a third for the Covie loyalists, but what I have so far is two examples for the Covenant would be: 

 

Research Subject: Swords of Sanghelios

Description: Thel ‘Vadam unites the keeps of Sanghelios against the tyranny of the Covenant. 

Bonus: Wealthy Infrastructure

The wealthy state of Vadam has access to the finest forgemasters leading to a higher quality vessel, as a result production is slowed and fleet supply for each vessel is increased, but each vessel sees large performance increases. 

Upgraded: Nanolaminate hull

Upgraded: Weapons Systems

 

One-Time Hero Unit Spawned:

 

Shadow of Intent:

Hull: 12,000

Shields: 55,000

Description: The Shadow of Intent is a Covenant CAS-class assault carrier, massive, and capable of carrying thousands of warriors and their instruments of war. It serves as the core of the Arbiter’s loyal fleet assets, and is commanded by the legendary Rtas ‘Vadum. In the post-War period, the vessel is both feared and revered as a herald of the Swords of Sanghelios.

Abilities:

“Evening the fight”

Description: Rtas ‘Vadum’s exemplary tactics allow the Shadow of Intent and her surrounding fleet to perform better when outnumbered.  For each enemy vessel in system, the Shadow of Intent and her escorting fleet gain x% performance in hull, shields, and damage. 

 

“Drop Slipspace beacon”

Description: Thel ‘Vadam tasked Shadow of Intent with retrieving long range exploratory fleets.  These vessels may be called to assist when a slipspace beacon is dropped.  (Basically similar to the Vasari loyalist Titan’s ability.

 

“Fore shield”

Description: Rtas’ bold tactics of ramming cruisers, while usually impractical made Sangheili commanders ponder the ability to focus shields on the prow of a vessel.  Virtually all forward damage is reduced to 0.  (Similar to the Vasari starbase fore shields ability)

 

“Broadside”

Description: The Shadow of Intent’s left and right weapons fire a continuous stream of weapons fire. (Can be used awesomely to take care of enemies trying to get around Fore shields)

 

Research Subject: Didact’s Hand

Description: Jul ‘Mdama, the Didact’s Hand has been blessed by a holy Forerunner in the flesh.  He has successfully recovered several sacred relics that augment his fleet. 

Bonus: Forerunner building

Description: Although ‘Mdama lacks the raw resources of the Arbiter, he has managed to salvage the building styles of Forerunners decreasing production speed.  RCS and CRS cost less to build and the CRS can be built at reduced supply and be built faster.  (This mini-faction emphasizes that Jul's groups are built for hit and run strikes)

 

One Time Hero Unit Spawned:

 

Song of Retribution:

Hull: 10,000

Shields: 50,000

Description: Sangheili warlord Jul ‘Mdama accrued a number of vessels in an effort to form a reasonably sized fleet capable of engaging humanity. At the head of this newly resurrected Covenant flotilla was ‘Mdama’s flagship, Song of Retribution. The ship was a traditional CAS-class assault carrier capable of impressive speed and incredible firepower.

Abilities:

“Gift of the Didact”

Description: As the Didact’s Hand a company of Promethean Knights are stored aboard the Song allowing quick boarding action. 

“Power to engines”

Description:  The Song of Retribution is capable of impressive speeds, and using Forerunner schematics this has been improved significantly.  This allows the Song to outmaneuver, as well as scramble for an easier retreat. 

“Raia’s vengeance”

Description: The Song diverts its shield power into its primary glassing beam.  The resulting destruction renders if it destroys the colony, it renders the world uninhabitable for 5 mins, and severely reduces the max population for even longer. (3 minute cooldown though).

“Pinpoint Jump”

Description: The Song’s advanced slipspace drives and ‘Mdama’s willingness to use unorthodox strategies allow it to carefully navigate within the gravity well of a planet. 

 

 

If this is an idea the devs kinda like then I'll work on the UNSC ones as well as the last Covenant one.  If not, well its all good.  

 

 


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#2 Daringpear

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 03:49 PM

That would be a great opportunity to shove in some of the new halo 5 covvie ships. Instead of making build times quicker, you might be able to (in only Jul`s case or the Arbiters case; this assures that the old models are still there in all their glory) replace models with the new ships, which perform along the lines of the "upgraded" ships.

CRS -> Weird spindly tiny corvette thing

Destroyer -> Medium-sized ship http://www.halopedia...gheili_Corvette

CCS -> Man O` War http://www.halopedia...eili_Man_O'_War


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#3 Sev

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 11:07 PM

 

That would be a great opportunity to shove in some of the new halo 5 covvie ships. Instead of making build times quicker, you might be able to (in only Jul`s case or the Arbiters case; this assures that the old models are still there in all their glory) replace models with the new ships, which perform along the lines of the "upgraded" ships.

CRS -> Weird spindly tiny corvette thing

Destroyer -> Medium-sized ship http://www.halopedia...gheili_Corvette

CCS -> Man O` War http://www.halopedia...eili_Man_O'_War

 

There is a way to change models, but changing stats is a whole new obstacle. I admit, it would be interesting to see two different styles (the traditional 'organic' build and Thel's new insectoid build) battling it out, but otherwise I dislike this, since this would be a strain on the modelers and texturers alike. Not to mention I HATE the new Covvie designs (and in the case of the Man O' War, the names).

And relating to the different subfactions idea, it's neat but I don't want the Storm Covenant to become a mini-UNSC - after all, I doubt Jul would sacrifice valuable ships to be wasted on a psychological warfare (except on a few occasions). Instead, I suggest that they focus on insurrection and manipulating youths for their own ends. Think ISIS - they supply the equipment and get discontent individuals to make an example or commit an act. Maybe have a structure which allows them to call a rebel fleet to attack a planet - no slipspace drives, however. Instead of decreasing their ship's stats, give a built-time debuff and remove research for their repair structure. Maybe slightly fewer population bonus than normal, and also have access to a ship which will allow them to capture enemy ships, since Jul did steal large caches of UNSC gear.

As for hero units, I don't think they should be buildable, since it takes away the feeling of 'this is my own faction' and forces you to join a side. I'd like to see them in as a random event, but not a buildable unit, since that will make it more special to use and have, as heroes should be, not 'oh, its like a Titan - bad but I can get another one'


Edited by Sev, 18 November 2015 - 03:59 AM.


#4 Lord Stark

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:24 AM

 

 
 

There is a way to change models, but changing stats is a whole new obstacle. I admit, it would be interesting to see two different styles (the traditional 'organic' build and Thel's new insectoid build) battling it out, but otherwise I dislike this, since this would be a strain on the modelers and texturers alike. Not to mention I HATE the new Covvie designs (and in the case of the Man O' War, the names).

And relating to the different subfactions idea, it's neat but I don't want the Storm Covenant to become a mini-UNSC - after all, I doubt Jul would sacrifice valuable ships to be wasted on a psychological warfare (except on a few occasions). Instead, I suggest that they focus on insurrection and manipulating youths for their own ends. Think ISIS - they supply the equipment and get discontent individuals to make an example or commit an act. Maybe have a structure which allows them to call a rebel fleet to attack a planet - no slipspace drives, however. Instead of decreasing their ship's stats, give a built-time debuff and remove research for their repair structure. Maybe slightly fewer population bonus than normal, and also have access to a ship which will allow them to capture enemy ships, since Jul did steal large caches of UNSC gear.

As for hero units, I don't think they should be buildable, since it takes away the feeling of 'this is my own faction' and forces you to join a side. I'd like to see them in as a random event, but not a buildable unit, since that will make it more special to use and have, as heroes should be, not 'oh, its like a Titan - bad but I can get another one'

 

Storm Covenant wouldn't be a mini-UNSC though.  It would be designed around quick hit and run attacks rather than turtle turtle turtle.  + You still have access to heavy hitters like the CCS and the CPV, it just costs you more to build them.  I think the rebel fleet idea should be Insurrectionists though.  Jul's fleet was nothing to sneeze at, they did render SoI combat ineffective and put a major dent in the Arbiter's fleet.  The Hero units wouldn't be buildable.  They'd slipspace in to your homeworld only once when you declare for a faction.  



#5 Battlemage1

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:07 AM

Changing stats is a really painass. Very, very problematic thing.

But idea is good. The UNSC also can be separated to Loyalists and Insurrection.


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#6 Sev

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 03:16 PM

 

Storm Covenant wouldn't be a mini-UNSC though.  It would be designed around quick hit and run attacks rather than turtle turtle turtle.  + You still have access to heavy hitters like the CCS and the CPV, it just costs you more to build them.  I think the rebel fleet idea should be Insurrectionists though.  Jul's fleet was nothing to sneeze at, they did render SoI combat ineffective and put a major dent in the Arbiter's fleet.  The Hero units wouldn't be buildable.  They'd slipspace in to your homeworld only once when you declare for a faction.  

I admit, I didn't understand that it only affected the CRS and RCS-class, so most of my concerns are redundant except for one thing: the Storm Covenant didn't have most of the infrastructure needed to construct ships. Sure, its mentioned in multiple places that the Hesduros citizens aren't reliant on Yanme'e and Huragok to repair and service their ships, but its not mentioned anywhere that the Storm Covenant had any ship manufacturers/facilities to replace their losses. This means that while Jul was a threat early on as you said, every ship that was lost was a massive hit in his stomach, removing the potential for larger successes in his later campaign with the exception of Sangheilios (though that was like parking the bus with all his remaining supporters there).

 

Regarding heroes, so they will only spawn once, and you can't get them again? If so, then I have no quarrels there.

 

I'm getting the feeling we both want the same thing, so I'll just write down my ideas here. What I'm saying is that each faction should have their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

Storm Covenant

Strengths: Harassing enemy empires, harming hostile empire's economies, even better fleet mobility

Weaknesses: Planetary colonisation, economy, ship build times, fleet supply, relations?

Bonuses: Exploration price reduction, steal resources, steal ships? Establish repair platforms at uncolonisable/other gravity wells

 

With these, the Storm are better at attacking behind enemy lines and disrupting enemy logistics, almost dedicated to asymmetrical military action. They have more freedom in establishing bases around the galaxy and stealing supplies. Essentially, their fleet motive is 'go in as quick as you can, grab as much as you can, and run before the big guns arrive', so I guess its a hit-and-fade tactic. I'm thinking a faction that's hard to use conventionally, but in good hands it can be a real pain in the ass to deal with.



#7 Lord Stark

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 10:42 AM

I admit, I didn't understand that it only affected the CRS and RCS-class, so most of my concerns are redundant except for one thing: the Storm Covenant didn't have most of the infrastructure needed to construct ships. Sure, its mentioned in multiple places that the Hesduros citizens aren't reliant on Yanme'e and Huragok to repair and service their ships, but its not mentioned anywhere that the Storm Covenant had any ship manufacturers/facilities to replace their losses. This means that while Jul was a threat early on as you said, every ship that was lost was a massive hit in his stomach, removing the potential for larger successes in his later campaign with the exception of Sangheilios (though that was like parking the bus with all his remaining supporters there).


Mmm not true. The Sangheili corvettes and Man 'O Wars are all post-war designs and there are armories at Malurok and other Sangheili worlds. Jul's fleet was clearly augmented by these designs in H5.
 

Regarding heroes, so they will only spawn once, and you can't get them again? If so, then I have no quarrels there.


Pretty much you declare for a faction and then that faction's commander comes to assist you. I'd also want to have this perk called 'Legendary Commander:' As long as your faction's hero lives, your people cannot be defeated.
 

I'm getting the feeling we both want the same thing, so I'll just write down my ideas here. What I'm saying is that each faction should have their own strengths and weaknesses.
 
Storm Covenant
Strengths: Harassing enemy empires, harming hostile empire's economies, even better fleet mobility
Weaknesses: Planetary colonisation, economy, ship build times, fleet supply, relations?
Bonuses: Exploration price reduction, steal resources, steal ships? Establish repair platforms at uncolonisable/other gravity wells
 
With these, the Storm are better at attacking behind enemy lines and disrupting enemy logistics, almost dedicated to asymmetrical military action. They have more freedom in establishing bases around the galaxy and stealing supplies. Essentially, their fleet motive is 'go in as quick as you can, grab as much as you can, and run before the big guns arrive', so I guess its a hit-and-fade tactic. I'm thinking a faction that's hard to use conventionally, but in good hands it can be a real pain in the ass to deal with.


Sounds about right. Although you can't really make colonization a thing I don't think. Negative relations with Covies, and humans, + with Forerunner imo. For lack of a better word, they are the terrorist faction (which is what the UNSC label 'Mdama's faction.

#8 Daringpear

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:12 PM

Perhaps there could be something like in STA3, where you do research (unlock Jul for example), and gain unlock the halo 5 new ships. You COULD still make the old ships, but why would you?


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#9 SiRD31M0S

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:13 PM

I'd also want to have this perk called 'Legendary Commander:' As long as your faction's hero lives, your people cannot be defeated.


This has huge potential to be abused by the UNSC. They'd just have to hide their hero behind walls of SMACs, drawing the game out for several more hours and invalidating any victory conditions.

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#10 Azo 'Salcam

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 07:43 PM

 

 

I admit, I didn't understand that it only affected the CRS and RCS-class, so most of my concerns are redundant except for one thing: the Storm Covenant didn't have most of the infrastructure needed to construct ships. Sure, its mentioned in multiple places that the Hesduros citizens aren't reliant on Yanme'e and Huragok to repair and service their ships, but its not mentioned anywhere that the Storm Covenant had any ship manufacturers/facilities to replace their losses. This means that while Jul was a threat early on as you said, every ship that was lost was a massive hit in his stomach, removing the potential for larger successes in his later campaign with the exception of Sangheilios (though that was like parking the bus with all his remaining supporters there).

 

Regarding heroes, so they will only spawn once, and you can't get them again? If so, then I have no quarrels there.

 

I'm getting the feeling we both want the same thing, so I'll just write down my ideas here. What I'm saying is that each faction should have their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

Storm Covenant

Strengths: Harassing enemy empires, harming hostile empire's economies, even better fleet mobility

Weaknesses: Planetary colonisation, economy, ship build times, fleet supply, relations?

Bonuses: Exploration price reduction, steal resources, steal ships? Establish repair platforms at uncolonisable/other gravity wells

 

With these, the Storm are better at attacking behind enemy lines and disrupting enemy logistics, almost dedicated to asymmetrical military action. They have more freedom in establishing bases around the galaxy and stealing supplies. Essentially, their fleet motive is 'go in as quick as you can, grab as much as you can, and run before the big guns arrive', so I guess its a hit-and-fade tactic. I'm thinking a faction that's hard to use conventionally, but in good hands it can be a real pain in the ass to deal with.

 

Don't forget about sustained fights. Jul's Faction, is sadly similar to the Rebel Alliance from Star Wars. they are brave, have a good cause, but...in a prolonged and even stand up fight? they won't last long against an organized foe.


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#11 Lord Stark

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 09:35 PM

This has huge potential to be abused by the UNSC. They'd just have to hide their hero behind walls of SMACs, drawing the game out for several more hours and invalidating any victory conditions.

Mmm, I mean it'd only really be valid in Capital victory.  In which case you can hide behind SMAC walls anyway.  






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