27 replies to this topic

[WarthogRacingMan3]

Here are some ideas I have for SMAC related research:

 

• Increased rate of fire SMAC research 
• Increased turning speed SMAC research

[Cole Protocol]

Maybe the turning speed, but cooldowm? That's very OP, but I could see why you suggested it

[Dianno5741]

The SMAC probably needs an update in the strings to inform the player that even when you build it. It has an ability that prevents it from firing for a while. This was to make sure you couldnt pop up SMAC walls in mere seconds after spotting a covenant fleet. UNSC is about planning ahead and failure to do so will cost you dearly. The ability is also better than my previous way which was SMACs took like 5 mins to build but that tied up your drones and other econ building projects. Luckily Lavo is a master coder and put that ability in that enables you to finish their construction but they still wont fire for a long time. I wont increase SMAC performance yet seeing as you have to do alot to counter it properly. Carriers, fighters, Super cruisers, or tons of ships. Those make the covenants job a lot harder. Just make sure you build them and plan ahead for where youll be attacked so you know if you need to spam them in  a grav well. Id also suggest you put up two lines. One at the edge of a grav well approx where theyd jump in so theyll get nailed on the jump in. Then a secondary line at your planet as a last stand. I only suggest the outer perimiter line because if they carrier/fighter spam you, those are really good at taking out your SMACs meaning youd have to engage his fleet on his terms which sucks if you dont have a fleet capable of chasing him out of the grav well.

[WarthogRacingMan3]

The SMAC probably needs an update in the strings to inform the player that even when you build it. It has an ability that prevents it from firing for a while. This was to make sure you couldnt pop up SMAC walls in mere seconds after spotting a covenant fleet. UNSC is about planning ahead and failure to do so will cost you dearly. The ability is also better than my previous way which was SMACs took like 5 mins to build but that tied up your drones and other econ building projects. Luckily Lavo is a master coder and put that ability in that enables you to finish their construction but they still wont fire for a long time. I wont increase SMAC performance yet seeing as you have to do alot to counter it properly. Carriers, fighters, Super cruisers, or tons of ships. Those make the covenants job a lot harder. Just make sure you build them and plan ahead for where youll be attacked so you know if you need to spam them in  a grav well. Id also suggest you put up two lines. One at the edge of a grav well approx where theyd jump in so theyll get nailed on the jump in. Then a secondary line at your planet as a last stand. I only suggest the outer perimiter line because if they carrier/fighter spam you, those are really good at taking out your SMACs meaning youd have to engage his fleet on his terms which sucks if you dont have a fleet capable of chasing him out of the grav well.

I understand about the SMACs cooldown when you first build them. I was suggesting having research to allow them to fire faster, on top of their current rate of fire.

[insaene]

The MAC research for ships also affects SMACs as far as I've seen it. It costs a lot though

[Dianno5741]

Increasing smac cooldown is irrelevant. They are there for fire support. To Support a defensive fleet and not to be left alone. Increasing their rof would potentially have that effect.

[Defender0]

why does a cooldown of 8 seconds need a research boost? thats one of the fastest firing main weapons in the mod

[Faced]

Maybe increase the damage by increasing the speed of the MAC round. That and researching different types of MAC rounds. Explosive (slower but more damage) Penetrating Rounds (Armour has less effect against the rounds but don't do as much) just something I know sins can't do this. But maybe different abilities of the SMAC . Like the SMAC weapon cool down different rounds but once 1 fires. they all cooldown?

[nightlight.zero]

So I've just played a game as the UNSC, and I set up one line of 10 MACs as defense, right next to where the enemy slipspaces in. The enemy was UNSC as it happens. They were hard AI. They threw about 70 ships, some capital at my defenses. They came in waves of about 10 at a time. They all died, and I didn't lose a single MAC.

 

A lot of people seem to think that MACs need buffing on these forums from what I've read, but in my experience, they totally smash enemy AI fleets, with very little difficulty. With 2400 damage, and a strong fire rate, they just smash everything, and they're very easy to build and maintain.

 

I would argue that they need to be nerfed a little, i.e. making them fire slower, not faster.

[Defender0]

2400 damage

try 30,000

[Faced]

try 30,000

[nightlight.zero]

Are they actually 30k? Is the info card wrong?

[m468]

Are they actually 30k? Is the info card wrong?

The info card gives you a rough DPS (damage per second) value. This is damage per shot (in this case) divided by time in between shots.

[Dianno5741]

with our changes, we are making it 60,000 damage. What this means is that every 15 seconds it shoots a round that hits for 60k

[m468]

with our changes, we are making it 60,000 damage. What this means is that every 15 seconds it shoots a round that hits for 60k

This keeps the SMAC capable of what it can do in the current release.

[nightlight.zero]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that means that currently, the DPS is:

 

30k / ~12 seconds = 2.4k 

 

And the planned change is:

 

60k / ~15 seconds = 4k

 

So the change effectively constitutes double the damage while slightly decreasing the rate of fire. 60k damage is enough to one hit anything in the Covenant Fleet, from what I've seen playing Covenant, even fully upgraded, if my maths is correct. In my experience so far, SMACs positioned in an arc near the slipspace deposit point of a gravity well make the planet basically impregnable when being attacked by another UNSC player. It works extremely well against the Covenant as well.

 

My line of thinking was that they should be nerfed further, not buffed. In my experience, 10 SMACs defending a planet in the way I describe above make the planet untouchable from everything but a really, really, really, large fleet landing at the same time. 

 

I was thinking about reasonable ways to balance them, as I understand you guys want them to be very strong defensive weapons, that are very hard to penetrate. I don't think it should be done by using the damage/shot or the ROF. Though, I would make the case that it should really be something like:

 

45k/ ~15 seconds = 3k DPS

 

if it were to be changed. The other idea that I had was trying to create a way for SMACs to have limited shots before the self-destruct. For example, they can only shoot 30 times or something, then they explode. Or maybe, everytime they shoot they take damage, or build up a cooldown timer or something like that. I'm really not sure. 

 

I've come onto the forums and found lots of people complaining that SMACs need to be buffed, but in the dozen odd games I've payed so far, I think they actually need to be nerfed. What do you guys think of that?

[Moustachio86]

SMACs have extraordinarily low health. They can one-shot pretty much any Covenant ship, as you say, but even a few frigates can take one out quickly, as it can clearly only target one ship at a time. It took me a while to catch onto this but SMACs really are the ultimate glass cannon. A series hanging around the exit to a gravity well can only kill as many ships in one volley as there are cannons, then they will likely be shredded. SMACs need to be defended at all costs to get enough bang for your hard-earned buck. 

[SPECTRE]

SMACs have extraordinarily low health. They can one-shot pretty much any Covenant ship, as you say, but even a few frigates can take one out quickly, as it can clearly only target one ship at a time. It took me a while to catch onto this but SMACs really are the ultimate glass cannon. A series hanging around the exit to a gravity well can only kill as many ships in one volley as there are cannons, then they will likely be shredded. SMACs need to be defended at all costs to get enough bang for your hard-earned buck. 

Put some repair stations and they are invincible.

[XtremeRoflcopter]

Put some repair stations and they are invincible.

SMAC vs Strikecraft man. Plus we aren't thinking far enough ahead. Forerunners use holyshithatstoughium armor so they really will need a big stick to stand a chance. 

[Defender0]

allow me to quote halo 4:

 

"This is earth orbital defense, MAC defenses are ineffective."

 

granted, this was regarding mantles approach, and im not going to make them invincible, but this quote will be implemented gameplay wise to a certain extent