34 replies to this topic

[HolyMith]

So guys, heree is the question I'm sure you have all asked yourselves at one point or another: How the f@!k did the Forerunners defeat the Precursors?

 Transsentient beings that spanned several galaxies and created basically all life in the Milky Way. They made the Forerunners. They were the daddies, the bosses, the guys-no-one-wants-to-mess-with. And the shitty half-assed society the Forerunners had at the time were able to nearly drive them to exctinction. It just doesn't add up I'm afraid.

 What about the huge numbers they undoubtedly had in other galaxies? If they were able to create entire species, why didn't they just create one to destroy the Forerunners? Or better yet, use their mind-numbingly potent neural weaponry to bash them back into the stone age.

 Sure, if they were fighting the Forerunners at the peak of the Ecumene's power, they MIGHT have a slight chance to at least control the Milky Way for a while. But all the other galaxies of Precursors would eventually whoop their asses.

 

Also, on a side note; what makes Humanity more worthy of the Mantle than the Forerunners? Was there anyone in human history who revered life more than the Librarian? Hell, the Forerunners had an entire caste of their society dedicated to protecting life. Sure, they eventually fired the Halos, but that was out of necessity, not choice.

 

Discuss.

 

 

[Bornstellaris]

Precursors didn't fight back, they refused to fight their own creations.

Precursors did create another race to wipe out the forerunners, the flood.

I think the Precursors favoured the humans, not sure why.

[Faced]

There's your answer from a forerunner 

[HolyMith]

Precursors didn't fight back, they refused to fight their own creations.

Precursors did create another race to wipe out the forerunners, the flood.

I think the Precursors favoured the humans, not sure why.

They refused to fight their own creations, yet they created the flood to wipe them out? Also, I meant at the time, when facing extinction, they never created a race to combat the Forerunners. Also, they could have just buggered off to other galaxies where the Forerunners couldn't reach them, if they didn't want a war.

Just doesn't make sense. Usually, the most advanced, most populous and most intelligent side will win. All of the shit about the flood deactivating the Forerunner ships and disabling their slipspace drives using neural physics. Surely the Precursors could have just done that. They could avoid a war without harming any Forerunners.

Plus the whole spiteful revenge that is the flood sort of defies the ''we don't want to fight'' theory.

Either the power of the Precursors was greatly exaggerated, or the Forerunners had some kind of super weapon to use against them, that doesn't work against the Flood.

[Unikraken]

 

 

Plus the whole spiteful revenge that is the flood sort of defies the ''we don't want to fight'' theory.

Are we sure this wasn't the action of a few remaining Precursors that didn't agree with the majority of their race? We always treat races like they're of one mind, but that's almost never the case in reality.

[Bornstellaris]

The flood was a test of worthiness from the Precursors from what I understand. They tested the humans to see if they were worthy of the Mantle and they were. The forerunners were not worthy and therefore destroyed.

[SternuS]

The flood was a test of worthiness from the Precursors from what I understand. They tested the humans to see if they were worthy of the Mantle and they were. The forerunners were not worthy and therefore destroyed.

But why were the Humans worthy? What was the test they had to pass in order to?

 

In Cryptum, we've been told that Humanity found a cure to the parasite, but later in Primordium, Iso-Didact Bornstellar guessed the Flood didn't infect Humans purposely, and he seemed to be right about it.

Then, if the Flood had to be a test to see who should've become worthy to carry on the Mantle, then why would've the Forerunners attacked the Precursors at first? Didn't they hunted them because of their decision, letting the Humans take Mantle's responsability upon them?

[Bornstellaris]

If I had to guess, I would say the humans were worthy because they sacrificed 1/3 of their population to stop the flood. They sacrificed themselves and their empire to protect other life, to stop the flood from infecting other worlds. The forerunners however, they wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. Hardly Mantle upholding material.

[SternuS]

If I had to guess, I would say the humans were worthy because they sacrificed 1/3 of their population to stop the flood. They sacrificed themselves and their empire to protect other life, to stop the flood from infecting other worlds. The forerunners however, they wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy. Hardly Mantle upholding material.

It's plausible, but then again, why would've the Forerunners attacked the Precursors, far before they met Humans?

[Bornstellaris]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but weren't the forerunners and the ancient humans created at the same time?

[SPECTRE]

Humanity is favored because, the forerunners took the mantle by force.

Also since the precursors have the ability to evolve and devolve species, i Hypothosise that the forerunners are one of the many variations of the evolution of the human race.

Furthermore it is heavily implied that Humans were directly genetically manipulated or at least naturally evolved to be inheritors of the mantle, seeing as how they took it into their own hands when the flood Came about. Whereas the forerunners Often subjugated species "If you haven't mastered even these primitives, then Man has not attained the Mantle."

Also you refer to ancient forerunners, who are very different from the current forerunners, seeing as how they can create their own mini domain. 

[SPECTRE]

1.They refused to fight their own creations, yet they created the flood to wipe them out? Also,

2.I meant at the time, when facing extinction, they never created a race to combat the Forerunners.

3.Also, they could have just buggered off to other galaxies where the Forerunners couldn't reach them, if they didn't want a war.

4.Just doesn't make sense. Usually, the most advanced, most populous and most intelligent side will win.

All of the shit about the flood deactivating the Forerunner ships and disabling their slipspace drives using neural physics. Surely the Precursors could have just done that. They could avoid a war without harming any Forerunners.

5.Plus the whole spiteful revenge that is the flood sort of defies the ''we don't want to fight'' theory.

6.Either the power of the Precursors was greatly exaggerated, or the Forerunners had some kind of super weapon to use against them, that doesn't work against the Flood.

1. could you or would you kill your own children?
2. Humans could have been.
3. They might have done.
4. The forerunners may have been more populous, also If you look at more technologically advanced societies in comparison with less technologically advanced societies, the more advanced of the two, tends to have a lower population.
5. Splinter factions, There is never just one side to an argument, there will always be zealots on both sides, Survivors will usually always feel vengeful, I have been there myself.
6. Numbers and psychological warfare, can you imagine what it would be like if your children just spontaneously attacked you on site, because they want your property and title.

Precursors didn't fight back, they refused to fight their own creations.

Precursors did create another race to wipe out the forerunners, the flood.

I think the Precursors favoured the humans, not sure why.

Technically precursors are the flood (or at least a grave-mind), i hypothesise that they used their genetic manipulation to self manipulate them self into an apex species, something that cannot be stopped easily. Also it would not be inconceivable that humanity was created to stop the forerunners, as we could have been gene sown to fight the forerunners, 

 

 

"Lord of Admirals... So very many years have we battled. My finest opponent, the Mantle accepts all who live fiercely, who defend their young, who build and struggle and grow, and even those who dominate—as humans have dominated; cruelly, without wisdom. But for all of us, there is a time like this... and for you, that time is now. Know this, relentless enemy, killer of our children, Lord of Admirals: soon we will face the enemy you have faced... And we are afraid.

 

[HolyMith]

@SPECTRE

 

I can think of a few eventualities. That make sense to me.

 

1: The Precursors were 99% nonaggressive. There was maybe a 1% minority that felt aggression towards the Forerunners. The rest of the Precursors left for other galaxies, while some stayed behind to dvelop the Flood and destroy the Forerunners. In this case, Forerunners crushing them in an actual war would be misinformation; as the Precursors simply left.

 

2: The Precursors were so alien they didnt understand physical violence. When the Forerunners attacked them, they didn;t know what to do because they did not evolve with aggression as part of their behaviour. They only understood how to create organisms (like the Flood, Forerunners and Humans) that experienced aggression. So they created the Flood as revenge. Seems highly unlikely since the Precursors created the Forerunners. They obviously knew what violence was.

 

3: The Precurosrs had an extremely small population and sheer numbers won the day for the Forerunners. The whole trans-galactic empire thing could still mean there were only a few precursors in existence in the first place.

[SPECTRE]

@SPECTRE

 

I can think of a few eventualities. That make sense to me.

 

1: The Precursors were 99% nonaggressive. There was maybe a 1% minority that felt aggression towards the Forerunners. The rest of the Precursors left for other galaxies, while some stayed behind to dvelop the Flood and destroy the Forerunners. In this case, Forerunners crushing them in an actual war would be misinformation; as the Precursors simply left.

 

2: The Precursors were so alien they didnt understand physical violence. When the Forerunners attacked them, they didn;t know what to do because they did not evolve with aggression as part of their behaviour. They only understood how to create organisms (like the Flood, Forerunners and Humans) that experienced aggression. So they created the Flood as revenge. Seems highly unlikely since the Precursors created the Forerunners. They obviously knew what violence was.

 

3: The Precurosrs had an extremely small population and sheer numbers won the day for the Forerunners. The whole trans-galactic empire thing could still mean there were only a few precursors in existence in the first place.

I think all 3 of the eventualities, are viable. And most likely it would be a mix of the 3.

Especially the last one.

[SternuS]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but weren't the forerunners and the ancient humans created at the same time?

You're absolutely right, but it is not specified that they met each other as soon as they were created.

 

The problem is that there is not enough mineral material to create a solid discussion. I think 343i should explain this better, in a further installment.

[SPECTRE]

You're absolutely right, but it is not specified that they met each other as soon as they were created.

 

The problem is that there is not enough mineral material to create a solid discussion. I think 343i should explain this better, in a further installment.

Its suggested  that humanity was born during the precursor-forerunner war, rather than being "Born" at the same time.

[SternuS]

Its suggested  that humanity was born during the precursor-forerunner war, rather than being "Born" at the same time.

No that's impossible (my opinion), I mean the war started because the Precursors decided to give the responsability of the Mantle to Ancient Humans. They had to exist before the war.

[SPECTRE]

No that's impossible (my opinion), I mean the war started because the Precursors decided to give the responsability of the Mantle to Ancient Humans. They had to exist before the war.

This actually makes sense, but it is said that humans appeared during the war, rather than before it.

[D4RKST0RM99]

The following contains details and spoilers from Silentium for those that havent read it-

Spoiler

First off, the powder found onboard the transports in Cryptum were the desicated remains of the precursor race so in essence the subsequent manefestation of the flood is really in part the precursors.

It seems the concept of death does not apply to the precursors as it does to us, the Forerunners fell from their good graces when they wiped them out, it is also stated in the books that humanity is yet to be tested worthy of the mantle.

“Precursor hatred of Forerunners is central to establishing motive. They say Forerunners rose up, unprovoked, and destroyed them. The Precursors did not defend themselves. 
They marveled at the power of destruction, of reorganization. Their law includes the necessity of violating the very nature of law . . . 
And so they created the Flood to allow themselves the pleasure of watching, at a later date, the progress of their most violent and aggressive creations . . .”

Also it is worth mentioning that some of the precursors survived the slaughter by leaving the galaxy and began their own plans for the forerunners as well as humanity so we may not have seen the last of them and also they have other progeny unknown to us at this time.

[Unikraken]

They may not have colonized many planets. They may have been wiped out so easily because of some kind of minimalistic choice on their part.