31 replies to this topic

[insaene]

Hey guys.

 

Before I wanted to throw my thoughts into the forum I played a lot of games and tried different fleet compositions.

This is just some thoughts from me.

I know you are working very hard on balance.

 

What me got wondering are two different things for the UNSC.

The Halcyon cruiser and the mines one can deploy.

Let's take a look first on the Halcyon cruiser.

(I compare all things without research buffs)

 

Halcyon cruiser

Cost: 500credits 88titanium 44deuterium

Interesting stats:

Supply: 15

Hull: 10k

Mac: 26 (1 MAC)

Archer dmg: 10

AAA dmg: 6

 

comparing it to the Thanathos:

Cost: 400credits 70titanium 35deuterium

Interesting stats:

Supply: 12

Hull: 6k

Mac dmg: 51 (2 MACs)

Archer dmg: 13

AAA dmg: 6

 

At first the stats look ok. The Halcyon is the tank. It costs more and has a higher supply cost than the Thanathos + only 1 MAC.

BUT what got me wondering is the efficiency of the Halcyon in mid to late game.

The Halcyon simply OUTRUNS all the other ships (some capitals included) you can build throughout the whole game with it's very high hull.

Let me show how.

For example:

It's mid game and you did your researches.

Let's say Carbon nanotube struts on lvl 1

This researchs gives your ships a 33% hp boost.

This would be:

Halcyon hp: 13300

Thanathos hp: 7980

 

This is why I said why the halcyon simply outruns all other ships.

It can stay in a fight much longer than a Thanathos so it can deliver more MAC rounds to the enemy can absorb a high amount of dmg and it can be used as a shield for your caps / athens / whatever.

Now this is the intention of a Halcyon cruiser but since it is so cheap I found myself spamming only those since I was just replacings lesser frigates all the time (does SoaSE works like that? Targeting lower hp ships?)

Imaging you have 40 Thanathos (12supply x 40 = 480) with hp of 240000 vs 32 Halcyons (15supply x 32 = 480) with hp of 320000. + This gets even worse when you calc with a research bonus

Or even better, try it out for yourself. The Halcyons will (sorry for my choice of words) wipe their asses with the Thanathos.

 

What my suggestion is. (One or the other, not both)

Make the Halcyon a little more expensive: This is also canon since the Halcyon cruiser was first dismissed from active duty because of its superstructure which costed a lot.

Make the Halcyon take more supply: Because the Halcyon is a cruiser and not a destroyer like the Thanathos it should take up more supply so you can't spam these like the Thanathos.

 

Now I'll take a look on mines:

Requires: 2 Research structures

Research cost: 600credits 50titanium 100deuterium

build cost: 510credits 130titanium 55deuterium

tactical slots: 0!!!

 

So I sadly lack of information in dmg and dmg radius.

But I've seen these fuckers (again sorry) blow up entire fleets all by themselves while the SMACs were chilling in the back and not firing.

I can build 150 of those on a fully upgraded desert planet.

150!

And since they seem to blow up smaller ships in 1 hit AND delivering AOE dmg while you can build a full set of SMACs and other defenses this is just too overpowered.

 

My suggestions:

Reduce the dmg done by mines (a mine should cripple a ship but not blowing a entire fleet to hell).

Reduce the amount of mines one can build in a gravity well.

Make the mines take up tactical slots (So the player has to decide which one he likes more for defense).

Reduce the AOE so it can't wipe out an entire fleet all by themselves

 

The great problem here with mines is that they do AOE dmg.

While a MAC round doesn't do AOE the mine simply is so powerful that its explosion can dmg or destroy a bunch of ships.

 

Nothing to say more to mines.

 

Lastly a bug I encountered while havin a fleet of Autumns / Halcyons / a Thermopylae

I ordered my fleet to jump to another system (from sun to sun)

A few ships refused the order and stayed in the system of the first sun.

They were all grouped.

I manually ordered them to jump but they were just hanging out in the gravity well saying (Oh no, sir my ship is too beautiful for this).

When I moved my mouse on one of these ships it showed you the path it wanted to fly (the given order). Still nothing happened.

I wondered if this is a Soase bug or does this one come from the mod?

 

So this was my two cents.

Thanks for listening.

Still an incredible job you guys did.

Take all my likes

[SPECTRE]

I think smacs are UP so UP that I no longer use them.
When you and chief attacked that planet if mine you just sat out of range of the smacs releasing fighters while your ships dealt with mines .

[insaene]

I think smacs are UP so UP that I no longer use them.
When you and chief attacked that planet if mine you just sat out of range of the smacs releasing fighters while your ships dealt with mines .

You lacked any defense for fighters... so not fault of SMACs

[sloosecannon]

I think smacs are UP so UP that I no longer use them.
When you and chief attacked that planet if mine you just sat out of range of the smacs releasing fighters while your ships dealt with mines .

Good to know. Hope you don't have to fight any players and get forced into a defensive position... Don't really know how you'll be able to defend yourself without em...

[SPECTRE]

You lacked any defense for fighters... so not fault of SMACs

I had a fleet of makos to cover them, then two sabre hangers and an anchor. Then I sent my level ten Thermopylae, mg two level 10(capital) Athens and 4 eions. No effect whatsoever.

[insaene]

Ok now I'm trying to collect more data and commenting on them... Well this will take a while.

[SPECTRE]

Good to know. Hope you don't have to fight any players and get forced into a defensive position... Don't really know how you'll be able to defend yourself without em...

It works really well. A large defensive fleet with the capacity to attack is better than static guns.

[Rovert10]

It can be argued that the Halcyon's role is more profound ever since health was doubled for all ships and the recent decreases in supply costs for the Halcyon. 

Mind you damage wasn't scaled to match the new changes so ships last significantly longer. This in turn allows the Halcyon to fire around with more Hyperion missiles (if you haven't noticed) as if it was Thanatos with a double MAC.

 

But do note this. The Halcyon doesn't have any AOE. It just annoyingly enough have a Shiva particle attached to its Hyperion missile with a much longer cooldown than a MAC. And it doesn't have any archers. All you need is like 5 more Thanatos Destoryers and not fight the Halcyon 1:1 Ratio and you'll win pretty much everytime. 

 

Good to know. Hope you don't have to fight any players and get forced into a defensive position... Don't really know how you'll be able to defend yourself without em...

I never use the SMAC except in the rare case of asteroids in which you can cover the entire gravity well and fuck carriers as soon as they jump in, you're better off spamming ships out with front line frigate yards

[insaene]

I know balancing is very hard work.

I'll read in all ships attributes and load it into a db. 

Then I will think about a worth value and how it could be calculated.

 

After this I'll share my results and thoughts with you.

 

The worth value will be the hardest part.

 

Stay tuned!

 

 

It can be argued that the Halcyon's role is more profound ever since health was doubled for all ships and the recent decreases in supply costs for the Halcyon. 

Mind you damage wasn't scaled to match the new changes so ships last significantly longer. This in turn allows the Halcyon to fire around with more Hyperion missiles (if you haven't noticed) as if it was Thanatos with a double MAC.

 

But do note this. The Halcyon doesn't have any AOE. It just annoyingly enough have a Shiva particle attached to its Hyperion missile with a much longer cooldown than a MAC. And it doesn't have any archers. All you need is like 5 more Thanatos Destoryers and not fight the Halcyon 1:1 Ratio and you'll win pretty much everytime. 

 

I never use the SMAC except in the rare case of asteroids in which you can cover the entire gravity well and fuck carriers as soon as they jump in, you're better off spamming ships out with front line frigate yards

Didn't say the halcyons have aoe I complained on the aoe/high dmg on the mines a unsc player can set as defense

[SPECTRE]

Hyperion missile?

[Rovert10]

Hyperion missile?

It's essentially a small nuke meant to give the Halcyon a small damage boost though it does less than a MAC.

[Rovert10]

Didn't say the halcyons have aoe I complained on the aoe/high dmg on the mines a unsc player can set as defense

 

Have you tried just sending picket ships and a scout? Hell you can just throw scouts into the minefield to clear the things. Mines are generally worthless pieces of shit due to how easily they can be cleared.

[SPECTRE]

Have you tried just sending picket ships and a scout? Hell you can just throw scouts into the minefield to clear the things. Mines are generally worthless pieces of shit due to how easily they can be cleared.

the Russian approach to clearing a minefield.

March or you will be shot and your family will be sent to Siberia.

[Aunt Gruntie]

And the AI doesnt seem to use them anymore.....

[Dianno5741]

I will look into the SMAC and increasing its health. 

[SPECTRE]

I will look into the SMAC and increasing its health. 

Not necessarily health but perhaps, survivability.

[Rovert10]

Not necessarily health but perhaps, survivability.

Well there isn't much we can do here except buff HP and Armor, the SMAC doesn't have any external weaponry to defend itself.

[SPECTRE]

Well there isn't much we can do here except buff HP and Armor, the SMAC doesn't have any external weaponry to defend itself.

Sometimes the best defence is a good offence, perhaps a range or ROF buff could help it last longer.

And SMACS had hanger capacity.

[Rovert10]

Sometimes the best defence is a good offence, perhaps a range or ROF buff could help it last longer.

And SMACS had hanger capacity.

That doesn't help against Covenant just going "LOL SERAPH" bomb SMAC when they would still sit out of range anyways.

We could give the SMAC a squadron but it wouldn't do much due to how bad fighter mechanics are. Fighters take significant amounts of time to clear bombers due to running in and making this large loop around and by that time your SMACs are already dead.

[SPECTRE]

That doesn't help against Covenant just going "LOL SERAPH" bomb SMAC when they would still sit out of range anyways.

We could give the SMAC a squadron but it wouldn't do much due to how bad fighter mechanics are. Fighters take significant amounts of time to clear bombers due to running in and making this large loop around and by that time your SMACs are already dead.

Perhaps a quick auto repair ability.