32 replies to this topic

[Lord Stark]

Ehhh they had a pretty sizable fleet in Cole's last stand.  And in Escalation and in the new novel it seems as though they have some close ties with some Remnant forces.

[SPECTRE]

Ehhh they had a pretty sizable fleet in Cole's last stand.  And in Escalation and in the new novel it seems as though they have some close ties with some Remnant forces.

"sizeable" yeh mainly just old transporters, a couple of old combat ships and a couple of brand new ships.

[Lord Stark]

"sizeable" yeh mainly just old transporters, a couple of old combat ships and a couple of brand new ships.

You do realize that the Insurrectionists were such a large threat the UNSC had to create the Spartans right?  A faction that makes a government draft 5 year olds into their military and conduct inhumane experiments on them is not a faction that is to be dismissed.   

 

Also that Innie fleet was more than likely a small portion unless you think Insurrectionist High Command would dedicate their entire fleet to a request made by a Captain who was Cole's former lover.

[SPECTRE]

You do realize that the Insurrectionists were such a large threat the UNSC had to create the Spartans right?  A faction that makes a government draft 5 year olds into their military and conduct inhumane experiments on them is not a faction that is to be dismissed.   

 

Also that Innie fleet was more than likely a small portion unless you think Insurrectionist High Command would dedicate their entire fleet to a request made by a Captain who was Cole's former lover.

Not there navy, SPARTANS were created not to stop them from using NUKES, and when the innies actually held a sizable colony where they could actually threaten smaller colonies.

And they were independent insurrectionists at psi serpentis, they didn't want disbandment of the UNSC, just a toned down version with semi independent colonies.

And insurrectionist high command? i think you have no idea how a rebellion is run. look at the IRA, they're fragmented into the PIRA, PILIRA, RIRA and hundreds more. in space it would be a logistical nightmare to form a unified insurrection.

[Cmdr Daefaron]

You do realize that the Insurrectionists were such a large threat the UNSC had to create the Spartans right?  A faction that makes a government draft 5 year olds into their military and conduct inhumane experiments on them is not a faction that is to be dismissed.   

 

Also that Innie fleet was more than likely a small portion unless you think Insurrectionist High Command would dedicate their entire fleet to a request made by a Captain who was Cole's former lover.

 

The spartans were made to capture/kill rebel leaders and recover nukes with the least bloodshed possible. A Marine/ODST assault would've cost a lot of lives from both ends.

 

There was no "Inne high command".

[Unikraken]

Going to be honest here, I haven't read most of the replies here, so I may post something already said...

 

But the Innies were not a rebel army vying for control of UNSC space, they were local colonies wanting autonomy. Using the British Empire as an analogy, Innies would be India, United States, and Canada. None of those nations wanted to replace England as the power, they just wanted England out of their business and full legal autonomy. There are/were absolutely elements of the Insurrectionists that want more than that, or operated on multiple planets to ensure the UNSC had their hands full, but their association was ad hoc rather than hierarchical.

[Nakamura]

The plot device was just a really cheap way of making Reach fall and make it look like it was impossible for her not to. Seriously what the hell Bungie?

I`m so glad you guys won`t use that ship.

[Lord Stark]

Not there navy, SPARTANS were created not to stop them from using NUKES, and when the innies actually held a sizable colony where they could actually threaten smaller colonies.

And they were independent insurrectionists at psi serpentis, they didn't want disbandment of the UNSC, just a toned down version with semi independent colonies.

And insurrectionist high command? i think you have no idea how a rebellion is run. look at the IRA, they're fragmented into the PIRA, PILIRA, RIRA and hundreds more. in space it would be a logistical nightmare to form a unified insurrection.

 

 

General Graves and 2 other Generals were considered to be the top brass of the Insurrection.  While it was fragmented there were several sects of the Insurrection that were directed by a command chain.  

 

Furthermore why do you think the MAC gun and such were invented to counter the Rebel threat?  Because a huge portion of it took place in space.  The Orbital defense grid of Earth was proposed when Johnson shipped out for basic.  We know that Johnson was involved in operations to counter the Insurrection as a part of Project: ORION.  And I can't think of any other reason someone would propose the construction of 300 country busting cannons in orbit of earth unless the naval threat of the Insurrectionists was real.  

 

And most damning of all is this quote here.

"History looks upon this time as an unfortunate (and perhaps inevitable?) misunderstanding between Earth and her colonies, but those fighting for the last decade also realize that it was the most amazing piece of blind fortune the human race has ever stumbled upon. Had we not been armed and learning how to fight in space... what would have happened in the years that followed, when we faced an enemy a hundred times worse? Oblivion, no doubt."

 

Let me repeat that for you.  "Had we not been armed and learning how to fight in space."

 

The Insurrectionists have and will continue to be a legitimate threat to the UNSC.  If they had total air superiority the idea of Insurrection would be a joke.  Hell even in 2491 Dr. Carver predicted the full collapse of human society as well as a massive war between the Outer Colonies and the Core worlds.  If the Covenant hadn't showed up and United the human race, I can pretty much guarantee they'd be embroiled in a civil war by now.  

 

The reason we don't really see Innie fleets is that we've been seeing field officers.  All the leaders the Spartans were deployed against were field operatives.  But let me ask you these two questions.  

 

1.  The Admirals that defected with the UNSC, don't you think they'd bring ships with them.  I mean they nearly captured Infinity for crying out loud.  You really think they aren't capable of capturing other naval assets?

 

2.  Why else would they place the Spartans in the naval forces if they were not to be utilized primarily in naval/ in engagements where they'd need heavy coordination with the navy?  

[Lord Stark]

Let's look at the facts:

1. We know innovations in space combat were made because of the Insurrection.

2. We know that even the most top secret secure vessel in the galaxy; Infinity was nearly captured by Innie forces.

3. We know that many of the top brass defected to Innie factions.  Now when top brass defect generally they take their loyal men with them.  This is especially true in fiction.  (See KOTOR).  If you notice most of the brass we've seen in the Insurrectionists have been army personnel, naturally they wouldn't have access to Naval assets.  The few naval personnel we've seen Lyrenne "Lyra" Castilla is the highest ranking...but she's only a Captain.  She commands 55 vessels.  If a Captain was able to seize 50ish Naval assets, imagine what an Admiral could do.  They could even steal the most powerful UNSC warship to date, or seize multiple smaller warships.  You are downplaying the significance of the Innie forces, especially now that they have access to the black market and countless Covenant warships.

[SPECTRE]

Yes innovations tend to happen before a hypothetical war.

2 not the most secure by far, that would be the UNSC point of no return.

Colonials will be colonials, Look at Armenius as one example.

Point invalid they were older UNSC models, probably bought as surplus or stole before scrapping, it happened before in real life. She held no UNSC rank before that.

[Emberblaque]

You guys haven't talked about the topic for a good page, so I'm gonna clean things out, except for the part of Lord Stark's post that was relevant.

 

You two are not the kind of people that are allowed to talk about this topic on this forum.

[Emberblaque]

Alright, all done. Also reformatted Lord Stark's post. You're a lot more convincing without all that angry formatting. I got shivers when I read "downplaying the significance" in 14-point Arial. You guys should also curse less.

 

And they're away!

[Cmdr Daefaron]

The plot device was just a really cheap way of making Reach fall and make it look like it was impossible for her not to. Seriously what the hell Bungie?

I`m so glad you guys won`t use that ship.

 

Only, in the game it had very little to do with the fall and in the data drops it explicitly said the bulk of the fleet and orbital defenses were fully intact on the other side of the planet clueless thanks to ONI.

 

The Naval side of the rebel threat was NEVER played up. It's mentioned once or twice, but overall they were not shown to be the bigger threat. The threat was the crazies nuking civilian population centers and ships.