35 replies to this topic

[Veni_Vidi_Vici]

UNSC Caps are relatively weak compared to what caps otherwise would be in other mods. (They die quickly.) You also don't get that many of them. I would suggest increasing the capital ship crew limit from 1:16 with changing intervals to 1:50ish with changing intervals. On top of that make carriers cost 2 crews and super carriers cost three. (Probably would give super carriers a buff to HP and armor and an extra 2 squadrons doing this). It does not seem to me that caps should be all that rare.

Seeing how unbelievably pricey it is, I would give the cradle more AOE buffs and change its ability cooldown. (Damage reduction, antimatter regen, reload time) Some people suggested using it as a shield. (Malevolence or Iconus Guardian Approach.) I would also move it to tier 4 and the Eion to tier 3. Right now I can run around with a Phoenix Cap and a Cradle for an easy colonizing rush. Tier 4 makes strike craft difficult to field in any number until mid game.

So modders, please shred my ideas. Whatever happens something better should come out.

[Unikraken]

It's late here and I have a 15 month old child who eats my brain every day, please explain the part quoted below, before I agree or mock relentlessly depending on the interpretation of it.

I would suggest increasing the capital ship crew limit from 1:16 with changing intervals to 1:50ish with changing intervals.

[sloosecannon]

It's late here and I have a 15 month old child who eats my brain every day, please explain the part quoted below, before I agree or mock relentlessly depending on the interpretation of it.

I think he means increase the limit on caps from 16 to 50 ish...

[Unikraken]

We've been talking about moving the starting cap from 1 to 3. The biggest issue here is the nukes.

[Veni_Vidi_Vici]

Sloose is correct.
Yes, If I increased the number of cap ships in game I would nerf nukes or reduce the number of ships using them.

[KhevaKins]

Nukes should be researched. like tier 7

[HTRK74JR]

1. Why should nukes have to be researched? UNSC has had the technology for them (and ability to make) for 600 years.

2. You say to increase the Capital cap to 50, it is currently 16, but then say increase the pop of the crew to 2 or 3? that makes the suggestion null and void.

[KhevaKins]

To balance it better. It is for gameplay not canon.

[HTRK74JR]

To balance it better. It is for gameplay not canon.

yes but the 2 crew thing is redundant because at the same time raises the unit cap to negate it.

EDIT: the UNSC at the start of the Human-Covenant war only had 700 ships or so. The average amount of ships produced, and lost, in a SotP game is about ten times this. so it makes sense to have more capitals flying around.

[KhevaKins]

i meant the nukes

[HTRK74JR]

i meant the nukes

Then how do you fight the flood eh? seriously, that would be a very, very tough fight without nukes. especially in the beginning

[Unikraken]

yes but the 2 crew thing is redundant because at the same time raises the unit cap to negate it.

EDIT: the UNSC at the start of the Human-Covenant war only had 700 ships or so. The average amount of ships produced, and lost, in a SotP game is about ten times this. so it makes sense to have more capitals flying around.

The two crew thing is specifically for carriers, to balance out how powerful they are. Which is unnecessary, because we've already nerfed carriers in the dev build, but you guys don't know that. I see no direct problem with doubling the amount of caps you get at each level of cap research. Nukes are too powerful for more than that and we've put a lot of effort into balancing nukes.

Looking back at my posts in the old forums, I approved doubling the cap limit months ago, not sure why that didn't make it in. I'll do my best to make sure it's in the next patch.

Edit: Never actually explained the nerfs to carriers. Squadrons are being cut in half, basically. By this I mean that instead of 6 bombers/fighters being in each squad there will be 2 or 3. Eion LC is now 15 supply. Hopefully these changes well help reduce lag and make Eion spam less of a default choice in fleet making.

[DEMONTHESE2211]

UNSC Caps are relatively weak compared to what caps otherwise would be in other mods. (They die quickly.) You also don't get that many of them. I would suggest increasing the capital ship crew limit from 1:16 with changing intervals to 1:50ish with changing intervals. On top of that make carriers cost 2 crews and super carriers cost three. (Probably would give super carriers a buff to HP and armor and an extra 2 squadrons doing this). It does not seem to me that caps should be all that rare.

Seeing how unbelievably pricey it is, I would give the cradle more AOE buffs and change its ability cooldown. (Damage reduction, antimatter regen, reload time) Some people suggested using it as a shield. (Malevolence or Iconus Guardian Approach.) I would also move it to tier 4 and the Eion to tier 3. Right now I can run around with a Phoenix Cap and a Cradle for an easy colonizing rush. Tier 4 makes strike craft difficult to field in any number until mid game.

I have personally never thought that capitals are too weak. With the damage that gets thrown around in this mod you have to use more realistic strategies with your capitals. This means screening them with escorts and cruisers. If you are sending a cradle and phoenix off alone it would not be that difficult for even a small fleet to engage them. Cover that cap and cradle with 15-30 frigates and suddenly it becomes a very different proposition.

More capitals would be appreciated.

The cradle is indeed incredibly expensive (5000 credits if I remember correctly). But at the same time it has a very effective repair. I could see adding antimatter regen. If it were given a more extensive suite of abilities I would recommend making it a capital ship and having all abilities already acquired.

Switching the Eion and Cradle research spots makes sense to me, especially given the nerf Unikraken mentioned.

[Defender0]

Instead of 6 bombers/fighters being in each squad there will be 2 or 3

for those of you that dont rely on strikecraft, this is going to give the mod a MASSIVE performance boost

[Veni_Vidi_Vici]

Thats a big drop in squadron size but it is equialent to my variable crew cost suggestion. It will help performance, but I thought TSOP did a good job already. If you haven't implemented it, I request you implement it for rebellion and move the squad size up. Will the strike craft get a slight dps buff?

As for the capitals being weak, I will clarify this by saying that there is not as much of a combat difference between them and the better cruisers. They are stronger in terms of firepower and in terms of health, but they match up with the CP cost. A halcyon refit is only roughly 3 times as good as a halcyon. In vanilla sins the caps went much farther.

The Phoenix/Cradle combo is only used on neutral worlds. Neither ship dies in even the most extreme militia circumstances, so I can focus the rest of my fleet to more regular maneuver. If the militia had some strike craft, I could have more issues here. But that is not a suggestion I would make right now. (Haven't thought it through)

Yes the cradle has an effective repair, but anything short of an effective repair would be useless in battle. MAC Shots will destroy many ships outright. They can only offer this repair less often than shot are fired too. I see them as being very similar in utility to the TEC repair ship, but at a cap ship cost. Ergo I don't think it should have a cap ship cost.

[DEMONTHESE2211]

As for the capitals being weak, I will clarify this by saying that there is not as much of a combat difference between them and the better cruisers. They are stronger in terms of firepower and in terms of health, but they match up with the CP cost. A halcyon refit is only roughly 3 times as good as a halcyon. In vanilla sins the caps went much farther.

If you take base stats you are correct in that they are roughly equivalent however you forget the abilities of the capital ships which, in SOTP, are incredibly powerful. Seriously a well placed nuke or capping an enemy cradle can be devastating.

[Unikraken]

The cradle can service 6 ships at once. It's passive does 5 at a time and then one can be targeted with the active ability. It has a huge amount of health, and once the sacrifice ability is finished that 5K health will be invaluable. It is not equiv imho.

[Defender0]

The cradle can service 6 ships at once. It's passive does 5 at a time and then one can be targeted with the active ability. It has a huge amount of health, and once the sacrifice ability is finished that 5K health will be invaluable. It is not equiv imho.

cradles are already invaluable, they can save an entire fleet from destruction if you have enough cradles to service ships. I say they are the single most useful unit in the mod

[Unikraken]

cradles are already invaluable, they can save an entire fleet from destruction if you have enough cradles to service ships. I say they are the single most useful unit in the mod

This understanding is why they are expensive, aside from the canon stuff relating to the logistical cost of such a vessel. Not to mention, first volley is incredibly important to the outcome of a battle, and the Cradle can make your enemy's entire first volley be spent on itself.

[Defender0]

This understanding is why they are expensive, aside from the canon stuff relating to the logistical cost of such a vessel. Not to mention, first volley is incredibly important to the outcome of a battle, and the Cradle can make your enemy's entire first volley be spent on itself.

its 5000 credits, 1000 metal, and 500 crystal well spent