16 replies to this topic

[Battlemage1]

I can't find no one, but I remember it was able to fire 40 rounds in Dome of Light.

 

Thus, Spirit of Fire had an incredible fire rate on MAC. I suppose, best in entire fleet. That's led me to think that ships of this class don't have a common MAC cannons, but a number of coilgun turrets along the hull. (Coilgun=MAC).

 

Also, Serina remarked, that a single turret is available.

 

https://youtu.be/qW-FEcjCH9M?t=1838

 

 

 

Perhaps, you might consider version, that Phoenix-class shouldn't have a sinlge powerful MAC, but a 4-6 weakest rapid MAC turrets, available to engage multiple targets  (or a single, but all together) from all or star/port and front directions? 

[David0425]

That MAC was optimized for planetary bombardment, and support of ground forces. And honestly, that whole weapon systems makes no sense since humanity couldn't recycle MAC energy until the fall of reach and the pillar of autumn. It was just the unsc's basic superweapons shortcut in halo wars

[Battlemage1]

Humanity already tested it's coilguns in 20-21st centuries. I doubt that in 26 century it would be a problem for small versions. They easier to provide with energy, cool (as far their barrels>charging solenoids are not inside the hull, so they require less cooler) and reload (due to small size of shells).

 

And... you didn't answer the question. There is no any signs of standard-issue MAC muzzle. Only heavy turrets, firing unknown light shells. I believe those cannons are MACs.

 

https://youtu.be/Wo1IFsqMrUU?t=1103   -the cannon

[David0425]

Humanity already tested it's coilguns in 20-21st centuries. I doubt that in 26 century it would be a problem for small versions. They easier to provide with energy, cool (as far their barrels>charging solenoids are not inside the hull, so they require less cooler) and reload (due to small size of shells).
 
And... you didn't answer the question. There is no any signs of standard-issue MAC muzzle. Only heavy turrets, firing unknown light shells. I believe those cannons are MACs.

Spirit had one MAC, the one it bombed planets with. It had the deck guns, and archers. Beyond that, there is no other active weapon systems besides the deploy able turrets when the crew had to repel the covenant to repair the reactor.

[Battlemage1]

Spirit had one MAC, the one it bombed planets with. It had the deck guns, and archers. Beyond that, there is no other active weapon systems besides the deploy able turrets when the crew had to repel the covenant to repair the reactor.

Then, why Serina, the ship's AI (AI, Carl!), remarked the turret? Where is the muzzle and why it's able to fire fourty shells with minimal recharge? Why deck guns were inside the hull and why they transformed as soon as were deployed? Do you realize that non-MAC shells have no chances to do some damage to the Covenant ships, and also very ineffective due to lower shell flight speed. 

 

http://www.halopedia...d_UNSC_deck_gun

 

This article states that these turrets are MACs. Without any evidence of ship standard MAC and with Serina remark, we must conclude that only MACs on board are turrets. Also, turrets are able to fire at ground targets. It's unlikely, that even small extremely fast moving piece of thungsten will burn in atmosphere.

 

 

Also, Phoenix-class was refitted (or even retrofitted) as troops carrier. It's initial design is poorly appropriate to combat the Covenant.

 

 

http://vignette1.wik...=20110809044120

 

Of course, if this big triangle-like hole is not a MAC muzzle. But why it's... so different? Bad lightning? Perhaps. But... still no proves, except info from official site. And in Halo space part always lots of mistakes. If it's so, why dorsal MAC-turrets are disabled? 

[SternuS]

By wiki (aka Lore), the Spirit of Fire had:

• Magnetic Accelerator Cannon
• 50mm point defense guns (Estimated 52)
• Deck Guns (22 or more)
• ATAF Missile Turrets
• HAVOK Tactical Nuclear Weapon

So, the answer (I suppose) is: The Phoenix-class ass-ship has one MAC.

 

Now, we must consider that we are talking about a ship that was by every means a one-of-a-kind. We know of only one Phoenix-class Refitted Colony Ship, the Spirit of Fire. This can bring to some conclusions:

1- its role in the mod could be changed to be a hero unit (and its place taken by some other carriers);

2- they are refitted versions, and are very likely to be not mass-produced; hence, one ship could be completely different from another of the same class (the SoF, for example, had its engines replaced by those of a Destroyer to increase thrust power); hence, categorizing them as a "Class" could be very wrong --->see point n°1.

 

But for the sake of this analization, let's keep the Phoenix-Class Assault Ship as we know it.

We must also consider that UNSC in the mod excels in Alpha damage: this means that if we give a single ship the ability to fire MAC rounds at multiple targets, the ship could become possibly very, very overpowered. Now, we could reduce the MAC damage as suggested, but there is the very likely chance that, given the already-low DPS the Phoenix's MAC has, the ship would become completely useless against early-game Covenant (the time of the game where Covenant excels), because MACs are the primary effective weapon of UNSC's alpha strike damage.

The MAC damage is already quite low. Lowering it means no utility against Covenant (and UNSC alike, honestly...it isn't that much of a power ship) forces. No utility means no one would build it. If no one builds it then it has no role in the mod. If it has no role in the mod, then we must cut it out. But we want to keep it in, so there's a problem with lowering the MAC damage.

 

Now I don't know what you mean by muzzle, so I don't know what to say about it.

 

"Humanity already tested it's coilguns in 20-21st centuries. I doubt that in 26 century it would be a problem for small versions."

Spoilering this out because it gets Off-Topic

Spoiler

If we are to talk about human technological advancement comparing it to our days, then I suggest you take notice of this: 500 years ago, which is approx. the same time span Halo is set from us, we shot at each other with Crosswbows and thought the world to be flat. I'd bet that by the 26th century we won't be firing bullets and slugs of steel, rather we'll have energy projectors and lasers and stuff so advanced we don't even know about now.

This is the main reason I would try not to compare Halo with our time.

 

Last but by no means the least, we have to consider that in Halo: Combat Evolved, in the level The Maw, you run through the PoA for approximately 4 kilometers. On a ship that's not even 1 kilometer long.

Things change during the course of time, and as the universe evolves, developers are very likely to retcon many things.

 

Sometimes you sacrifice Lore to Gameplay.

[Battlemage1]

If we are to talk about human technological advancement comparing it to our days, then I suggest you take notice of this: 500 years ago, which is approx. the same time span Halo is set from us, we shot at each other with Crosswbows and thought the world to be flat. I'd bet that by the 26th century we won't be firing bullets and slugs of steel, rather we'll have energy projectors and lasers and stuff so advanced we don't even know about now.

This is the main reason I would try not to compare Halo with our time.

 

 

 

Halo made in our time as a game. "MAC" (aka coilgun) is reality and was already tested (in smaller size). That's why it's included as primary UNSC weapon. Not plasma torpedoes, not lasers or phasers, but MACs. I

 

Also... Lasers are unworthy to be a wepon in any case. The nature of laser is strongly restricts any chances to use it as heavy weapon. Most likely, that "lasers" presented in Halo are just another energy weapon bearing that name... Or they finally opened a combat effective type of laser (there are relatively many laser types) to 26th century.

 

This is the main reason I would try to compare Halo with our time. There is not so much new in Halo series. Many stupid things.

 

Now, we must consider that we are talking about a ship that was by every means a one-of-a-kind. We know of only one Phoenix-class Refitted Colony Ship, the Spirit of Fire. This can bring to some conclusions:

1- its role in the mod could be changed to be a hero unit (and its place taken by some other carriers);

2- they are refitted versions, and are very likely to be not mass-produced; hence, one ship could be completely different from another

 

Waste of time. Unconfirmed information. Kill of a relatively good class for nothing.

 

 

 

We must also consider that UNSC in the mod excels in Alpha damage: this means that if we give a single ship the ability to fire MAC rounds at multiple targets, the ship could become possibly very, very overpowered.

 

Did you see those MAC turrets? They like macrocannos in Battlefleet Gothic. Have relatively good recharge time, but bad damage and most likely overall range.  Also, Alpha damage should not be ill-powered. Especially on secondary combat ships. Weak deck cannons for a weak (in everything) colony ship won't make it overpowered or mass-producted instead of true battleships anyway, but will save some money when corvette/frigate spam encountered.

 

With it's quite low primary MAC damage such addition will be a perfect solution for self-defense during planetary assaults and occasional close combat. Perhaps you should consider idea of improving minor side MAC turrets damage.

 

 

*My English book says that muzzle = barrel.

[The]

Hehe...

Phoenix Class Ass Ship

[Lavo]

We already have the mini-MAC turrets that the Phoenix has; these are what we call "Deck Guns" ingame. We could change the effects on the ship such that the single MAC it fires shoots off a burst of MAC shells to be more lore friendly, but changing the net alpha damage of the ship is not an option.

[Battlemage1]

We already have the mini-MAC turrets that the Phoenix has; these are what we call "Deck Guns" ingame. We could change the effects on the ship such that the single MAC it fires shoots off a burst of MAC shells to be more lore friendly, but changing the net alpha damage of the ship is not an option.

 

Spirit of Fire main MAC effect is unknown. If don't ruin the balance, then Alpha MAC should stay in place.

 

I knew about deck guns before. Perhaps, I said it incorrectly. I suggest to make them much more dangerous in close combat. I'm talking not about another effecttive offensive weapon for Ass-ship, but about realy useful defensive weapon. Pardon me, if it can't attack small crafts and performs badly even against UNSC frigates. In short: it lost helixes without equal replacement. Let's buff the cannons or add additional Helixes.

 

Phoenix can't make anything in direct fleet engagement anyway. Some players (Yes, Mojo, I let them all know) to spam them... Fail was critical.

[Mojo]

? i spamed phoenix classes....dont thinhk so bud..i had 2 of those in my fleet since the bulk was maratohns early and later a mix of marathons,orions and punics....please chek your facts befor posting stuff you have no evidece for.

[Andy493]

The Phoenix isn't that bad in combat I had a small fleet and I had 3 Phoenix's and most died but the last one got to lv8 and that thing would not go down without a fight when the rest of the fleet finally died and it was all alone it did hold its ground for a bit but got overwhelmed taking down about 2-4 ships with it and for a 1v5+ mid tier covie ships against one tier one cap ship I don't think that's bad

[Battlemage1]

The Phoenix isn't that bad in combat I had a small fleet and I had 3 Phoenix's and most died but the last one got to lv8 and that thing would not go down without a fight when the rest of the fleet finally died and it was all alone it did hold its ground for a bit but got overwhelmed taking down about 2-4 ships with it and for a 1v5+ mid tier covie ships against one tier one cap ship I don't think that's bad

Too many 'died' for a combat effective capital ship. Phoenix is a support ship with expanded battle capabilities.

 

 

By the way... Are you sure that Phoenix ass-ship can carry 12 squadrons? There are only 4 large hangars, and 4 small (down section). 

[The]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

The firing effects look similar to me, I don't see why they should be extremely different.

[Battlemage1]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

The firing effects look similar to me, I don't see why they should be extremely different.

And, so? Here's two different weapons. I don't understand what you mean.

[The]

And, so? Here's two different weapons. I don't understand what you mean.

The tracers of the rounds are extremely similar, I don't see why they should be considered Mini MACS rather than the standard Helix AA Gun.

MACs also have a much brighter, whiter firing effect as opposed to the orange firing effect of SoF's deck guns and Helix AA Guns.

[Battlemage1]

The tracers of the rounds are extremely similar, I don't see why they should be considered Mini MACS rather than the standard Helix AA Gun.

MACs also have a much brighter, whiter firing effect as opposed to the orange firing effect of SoF's deck guns and Helix AA Guns.

Because many people said and wrote that there were MAC Deck cannons.

Helixes have another description. Spirit's cannos have too poor fire rate to target small crafts. Also, they have no UP-DOWN fire arc - another reason why SoF weapons are not Helixes.