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Remember the 13th of November


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#1 SternuS

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 09:27 AM

Remember, remember, the 13th of November...

 

Today, Bologna station:

12247054_1162356813794023_15655772414031

 

Termini station:

11169067_924092107657564_164210592542293

 

Senigallia station:

12274478_721978764598937_813682019622915

 

And I know these can be common sights in everyday warfaring-countries, but here...I can asssure you, this is a very, very rare sight.

This is indeed a first in my short life span, and I am both thrilled and scared. Thrilled, as a youngling can be thrilled about warfare, and scared because of the proximity with the events, and knowing that what has happened in France could happen tomorrow here.


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#2 mmeier

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 11:38 AM

I think Article 5 of the NATO Charter might be invoked in the next few days for real. This time it was an actual state doing the attack on an allied nation. I'm just not convinced it will achieve anything, considering recent history of military intervention against militias/terror groups. We will certainly be able to defeat ISIS, the state, but as with the Taliban in AFG, I don't think we can actually defeat ISIS, the terror group/ideology.



#3 mmeier

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 02:53 PM

It's news to me that we're the ones paying them. I always thought they were bankrolled by their brethern from the richt Gul States. Also, that proof President Putin brought at the G20 was for individuals from over 40 states - Russia among them. So no, "we" aren't paying anyone.

 

On the question of armament, I would point you first to just about every propaganda medium of the IS. I don't know about you, but those weapons look like more like Russian AK47 and RPGs than Colts,G36 and FN weaponry. And even those Russian model weapons probably don't come from the Russian Federation, but simply from plundered armories of the Assad Regime and the Iraqi army.

 

Concerning the "...but...but...there is also other suffering in the world, and you didn't do anything there!!!!" argument: First, what does that have to do with anything? And second, there was a EU declaration, as well as several more from EU member states condemning those massacres. I would also point you towards several EU training missions for the security forces in a number of african states, including Kenia, but also Ruanda and Nigeria, for example. And there is a vast difference in cases between Paris and Kenya: Kenya is not a member of NATO. If we sent combat troops to battle terrorists within their borders, we would violate the sovereignity of a nation which has given us absolutely no cause to do so.

 

And the bombers did not take off after Paris. The bombing campaign has been ongoing for months now. And no, I'm pretty certain NATO does not want nor intends to bomb "any country we want".

 

And I don't understand where you get the idea that a killing blow air strike is even remotely possible against IS, or any other terror group for that matter. And whenever you bomb a place, there are going to be innocent deaths. So any bombing campaign is definatevely going to hit the Syrian population.

 

The great problem with always being the good guys is probably that being a good guy in international politics is a long term investment. When everybody is good, there will be no new grievances so strong they require killing. The problem here is rather the already existing grievances. And sadly, history has proven that even those who meekly fold their hands and do good can become targets.

 

Finally, allow me to be blunt for just one moment: Don't you find it the least hypocritical for a Russian to accuse anyone of wanting to reconquer world dominance? Pardon me, but that accusation made me laugh. ;-)

 

Greetings,

Michael



#4 Battlemage1

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 03:13 PM

Finally, allow me to be blunt for just one moment: Don't you find it the least hypocritical for a Russian to accuse anyone of wanting to reconquer world dominance? Pardon me, but that accusation made me laugh. ;-)

 

Then Paris didn't thaught you anything. There can be no world leader, but some kind of commonwealth. RF and it's allies understand it well. None from rising countries wants to lie under NATO or US. And Russia is doing nothing other, but trying to protect it's interests from Western advancement. You know, till recent time there were many organizations inside our country, recently claimed as foreign agencies. There are already many articles of many treaties broken by NATO. There are more and more wargames alongside all our borders. Some planes flying too close to our aerospace, and after being fucked off Pentagon screaming about 'agression' and 'incompetence'. And who's a threat?
All facts you may find yourselves. 

 

 

There are no victims after our army, only Syrian grateful people and SAR Leadership official thanks. If J. Psaky has something to add, let her speak. She is one of our favority comics. It's a pitty what she was fired.
From the West... moderate head slayers support (cars, guns, money, instructors), threats (to RF, China, SAR), excuses, blanked charges, firing hospitals (Fail) with people and mass media warfare (Like when they declared casualties from Syrian people, but RF planes take off was suspended. What a shame).
Try to find out the truth yourselves.

 

Also, Syrian military said that they didn't know about Coalition planes striking at terrorists. That's why they were in ass untill we've come. And now those bastards are running in female dresses to save their miserable lives. 

 

And Kenia? Were you going to fight terrorism? Why in Syria, but not in Kenya? Oh, yes, your interests lying there. Just as ours. But who is attacker and who is defender? We all know the answer. We all know whose mans dying there and from whose bombs. Pitty, but necessary.

 

 

P.S. When in 1990 US did their best to never allow this country rise again, many of our vehicles and weapon and projects were sold for nothing. For example, US F/A-35 plane got its concept from Soviet YAK-141 VTOL fighter. But YAK-141 was really good for it's time, while F/A-35 is  just an expensive fail with limited stealth capabilities. 
All these guns in hands of terrorists around the world are just consequences of your US politics in 90-s.
Now RF Armed Forces use another weponry and equipment, more advanced. Advanced enough to bring some showmans to histerical state.

 

P.S.P.S. Boy, we have 3 sorts of loyal terrorists in our own country. Their leader assured President that they're ready to deploy whenever they need. Strong guys. You'd call them outlaws, perhaps. But we don't. There is no need to hire someone else, if you have your own regular guerilla.

Especially such invalids as ISIS... Especially, when you're smart enough to let your enemies ashame themselves without any help. 

 

 

 

You should understand me correctly. We all know who we should blame, but it's all useless. Forum War definitely won't save none from bombs or executions. Best thing we can do:

Best thing you and me can do is to train hard to accelerate to 37 km/h for 5 seconds on foot, as soon as somebody raises a gun. Buying yours own might help too.

 


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#5 MrChipps

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Posted 16 November 2015 - 04:55 PM

Minor gripe, although IS uses the word 'state' in its name it is not recognized as such by other actual states.
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#6 chiefship

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 04:28 AM

Remember, remember, the 13th of November...

 

 

12247054_1162356813794023_15655772414031

 

Termini station:

11169067_924092107657564_164210592542293

 

 

 

 

 

Good 'ol Panzerhaubitze 20000 - ready to woop some ISIS asses


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#7 mmeier

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 05:22 AM

Very interesting. As a fan of the EU I thought I knew everything there was to know about the treaties, but today I learned something new: The EU treaties actually contain articles about military support after attacks, which France has now officially called upon. Even though I'm not certain that the Panzer trains in the picture actually have anything to do with Paris - knowing the EU, that would be an awfully fast reaction time. ;-)



#8 SternuS

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 06:09 AM

Very interesting. As a fan of the EU I thought I knew everything there was to know about the treaties, but today I learned something new: The EU treaties actually contain articles about military support after attacks, which France has now officially called upon. Even though I'm not certain that the Panzer trains in the picture actually have anything to do with Paris - knowing the EU, that would be an awfully fast reaction time. ;-)

And yet, they were in my town's station yesterday.

I don't know their purpose or provenience either, but there they were.


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#9 Battlemage1

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 07:08 AM

knowing the EU, that would be an awfully fast reaction time. ;-)

Missiles've found their targets already. It's a shame, that those bastards burned without a show.

 

Don't worry, if your tanks will late to a party to deal with  'second wave' in Europe, perhaps, we'll be able assist. You may don't turn off your BMDs. 


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#10 chiefship

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 08:05 AM

Lets kick some terrorist asses. I really hope that the NATO and Russia will finally work together so that these bastards get what they deserve 


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#11 Battlemage1

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:06 AM

Lets kick some terrorist asses. I really hope that the NATO and Russia will finally work together so that these bastards get what they deserve 

It would be great, if you will really join RF and SAR forces to annihilate the threat... Without any arriere-pensees, as usual.

 

Mad russians sending more planes to kill Syrian people:

Spoiler


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#12 Mojo

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 10:44 AM

Hehe looks like a 0/815 field exercise i  doubt you'll fight a open war against IS in italy, even my country moves military equitment around from time to time to train in the Czech republic with ohter nato countrys,dont worrie to much about that.Outside of that i know that many folks are affraid and i also know it was terrible what happend but we should try to keep calm after all there main goul they wanted to achive was to spread fear and i for one wont give them that satisfaction.I'am more affraid about the fact that some politic figures could use that aggainst the refugees,if that happends many more lives will be lost just because we where to affraid to help them.



#13 SternuS

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:31 AM

Hehe looks like a 0/815 field exercise i  doubt you'll fight a open war against IS in italy, even my country moves military equitment around from time to time to train in the Czech republic with ohter nato countrys,dont worrie to much about that.Outside of that i know that many folks are affraid and i also know it was terrible what happend but we should try to keep calm after all there main goul they wanted to achive was to spread fear and i for one wont give them that satisfaction.I'am more affraid about the fact that some politic figures could use that aggainst the refugees,if that happends many more lives will be lost just because we where to affraid to help them.

Well open war won't happen anywhere, since they are all about the Guerrilla style of warfare. And that scares me more than open warfare, since an open warfare you can fight it and have tactical disposition of troops in the right moment, but a Guerrilla warfare only means surprise attacks and terrorism.


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#14 mmeier

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:52 AM

Well open war won't happen anywhere, since they are all about the Guerrilla style of warfare. And that scares me more than open warfare, since an open warfare you can fight it and have tactical disposition of troops in the right moment, but a Guerrilla warfare only means surprise attacks and terrorism.

 

Yeah, and I think we still don't have the right strategy to counteract that asymmetric warfare. AFG as well as Iraq have shown that. For now, there are two ways which work. The first is the way the european powers used in their colonies in the the early 20th century. But those methods are not available to us anymore, because we now have principles. The second way is what the Soviets did with eastern Europe and the Allies did with Germany after WW II, namely vast occupation armies and total control over the country.

 

I don't think that what we did in AFG and Iraq will work again in Syria, namely doing the conquering and then trying to hand over the fighting to the locals. Because the local population will see what happened in Iraq and AFG after the western troops left. The Islamists came crawling out of their holes and punished those who helped the west. So any Syrians would probably think twice before they help any occupation force, which will make intelligence gathering extremely difficult. 

In addition, we had local allies in AFG and Iraq. Who would we ally with in Syria? I don't think anyone (safe perhaps the Russians) would be willing to ally with Assad. I'm pretty certain the Syrian population would be too grateful if we did that.

 

So at the moment, I simply don't see any viable strategy for intervention in Syria. And those current air strikes? They're achieving little, besides killing innocent civilians. A conflict has never been won by air power alone. And in Syria, we don't have any allies which could benefit from tactical air strikes.



#15 Mojo

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:13 AM

^ Not entirely true Israel,libanon,iraq do atleast a little.those air strikes help thats just a fact even i cant deny but it wont do much long term wise,we Need a long term plan not to just stop the IS but to improve and stabalise the whole Region without contaminating the culture and forcing them into a wester doctrin like we did bevor.Thats hugly simplified trought.

 

Thats somethingh we Need to solve togheter not just the Wester pact but also Russia and the Locals,but the current hate on the refugges is absolutly intolerable for a "civiliset state"

 

Planning our furhter advance is the key,but we Need to do it togheter .

Those bombing runs should be cordinated with efry Nation trough and i mean efry Nation which is incoperated in that "Operation".

Also bombing Population Centers should be a no-go.

 

#16 mmeier

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:38 AM

 

^ Not entirely true Israel,libanon,iraq do atleast a little.those air strikes help thats just a fact even i cant deny but it wont do much long term wise,we Need a long term plan not to just stop the IS but to improve and stabalise the whole Region without contaminating the culture and forcing them into a wester doctrin like we did bevor.Thats hugly simplified trought.

 

 

I'm not entirely certain what you mean with Israel or Libanon, but in Iraq, the Iraqi army can barely hold what they still have, let alone recapture territory.

 

And I don't think that right now, the West could stabilise anything in the middle east. Due to the last ten years, we've just lost far to much trust. Absolutely nobody will believe us when we suddenly start helping after having spent a decade bomding funerals, hospitals, schools and weddings without so much as a "Ooops, sorry". The whole history of the west in the middle east consists of either colonialism, supporting brutal dictators, runaway bombing campaigns and using NGOs as cover for covert operations. We can't help there because nobody would believe us if we tried.



#17 Mojo

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:57 AM

Yes but if we dont slow down the Progress of the IS Forces we will have a huge Problem in the middle east not just because the IS takes over Iraq,what do you thinhk will be next target after they conqeured Iraq and Syria ,well i thinhk they will take a try on Jerusalem and iam sure youre Aware that iraq has still a ton of Us Military equitment.We cant just Keep our noses out of it.

 

The problematic is that no matter what we do it wont be the perfect solution,but we also cant do nothingh.

 

We Need to help the Population and convince them that we want to help them.....thats somethingh which might take decades,but after all IS gets there power from the Support of the Population....and the Population hates us.

 

We Need to Change that.



#18 Battlemage1

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:10 AM

 

 

the Population hates us

 

They're doing right thing. You ashamed yourselves in every way, from Guantamo-democracy to "hidden" war crimes during every ME campaign. Nobody needs your help. You can't give any help, because it's not in your interests. Best thing you theoretically can do - rob them without harm. But you proven you can't. From Holy Crusades till now days you brought there only evil, suffering and death.

Many succesful countries were ruined by the US. There is nothing left for those people. There is no need to force more of them suffer from terrorism all other - worst things you can offer.

 

 

onqeured Iraq and Syria

 

They're fleeing in female dresses. They will find their deaths in fire of inferno, crusing upon them from the skies. If not all, but many. Such inglorius deaths.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

We Need to Change that.

 

No, you don't need, because it's a common lie.
Just GTFO of there as soon as possible and never go back. You're nobody to impose them on your help. The UN can, but no US or any other country. Only the country that needs help has right to require it and choose they way to get it. And your help still wasn't required. 

There are no highest nation or race among bipeds. This simple fact was proven many many times.

 


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#19 Mojo

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:23 AM

^ thanks battlemage thats a very constructive response,well it's not .

 

"No, you don't. You didn't even try.
Just GTFO of there as soon as possible and never go back. You're nobody to impose them on your help. The UN can, but no US or any other country, except one that needs help, because it can't handle it's problems itself. ​"

 

uhm do you mind to refrace this sentence since iam not sure what you mean.

also the US is member of the UN and ohter countrys too so uhm eh?



#20 Battlemage1

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:26 AM

Truth cuts your eyes? As usual... 

 

also the US is member of the UN and ohter countrys too so uhm eh?

 

 

 

There is a difference between being a member and have a mandate and orders to do so. Western Coalition acts on their own will, without UN approval. The RF has it's mandate from SAR.
 


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