22 replies to this topic

[Defender0]

Ok, im not sure if anyone has had this problem, what causes the AI to do this, or all that. All i know is that, while testing some of the changes Dianno had made to the covenant yesterday, I became under attack by UNSC fleets composed of about 2/3 Eion carriers. And these were pretty significant fleets, about 30 ships minimum per fleet. The AI was set to normal difficulty.

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

[ShadowOfIntent]

OMG YES IM GETTING BONED BY COM NOW HELP PL0X.

[Jrspartan]

Really? ive been attacked by armies of paris frigates but never eions.

[Defender0]

Really? ive been attacked by armies of paris frigates but never eions.

this was worse than Paris frigate spam... imagine dozens of longswords attacking your anti fighter defenses and winning

[TheOtherXtremeRoflcopter]

Ok, im not sure if anyone has had this problem, what causes the AI to do this, or all that. All i know is that, while testing some of the changes Dianno had made to the covenant yesterday, I became under attack by UNSC fleets composed of about 2/3 Eion carriers. And these were pretty significant fleets, about 30 ships minimum per fleet. The AI was set to normal difficulty.

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

This has happened to me in not just this mod but in all other mods I play, what I believe is happening is that the A.I places a priority on strikecraft to support the fleets therefore they build the carriers in large quantities. Even if you play an unmodded game you begin to notice that the A.I begin to crazy spam the carriers by mid to late gameplay stages.

[Faced]

Good time to use this meme

Spoiler

[Jrspartan]

this was worse than Paris frigate spam... imagine dozens of longswords attacking your anti fighter defenses and winning

Ive seen enough of this in regular sins to be afraid of this. Not as much as borg in SOA2, but still pretty bad

[Defender0]

Imagine being eion rushed when testing the balancing of covenant ships...

[HTRK74JR]

Is it possible to limit the amount of carriers in the game? In the lore, the UNSC had very, very few, countable on both hands by the time Spartan 3s were being deployed. and since that was 2543, the same time this mod takes place, seeing 50 carriers in a fleet, is very unrealistic.

[Unikraken]

Is it possible to limit the amount of carriers in the game? In the lore, the UNSC had very, very few, countable on both hands by the time Spartan 3s were being deployed. and since that was 2543, the same time this mod takes place, seeing 50 carriers in a fleet, is very unrealistic.

Nope. Also, I see lore related carrier talk to be about large carriers like the Athens carrier, not what is essentially a Halcyon sized ship with more than usual fighters.

[HTRK74JR]

Nope. Also, I see lore related carrier talk to be about large carriers like the Athens carrier, not what is essentially a Halcyon sized ship with more than usual fighters.

hmm... in fall of reach (book) it listed as there being very, very few carriers left in the entire fleet, maybe 3-4 left. idk, i hate it when carriers are spammed, and i feel that there should be a limit, or ships replace the carriers. in vanilla sins they fir their role well, but UNSC ships put everything into their MACs and missiles, with PDG to handle fighters. Longswords more than held their own against seraphs and banshees in space, and the sabre raped all, and the Broadsword, cannot wait for that ingame.

[Defender0]

In the interest of balancing, can we reduce the amount of fighter squadrons the Eion has from 3 to 2?

[Unikraken]

hmm... in fall of reach (book) it listed as there being very, very few carriers left in the entire fleet, maybe 3-4 left. idk, i hate it when carriers are spammed, and i feel that there should be a limit, or ships replace the carriers. in vanilla sins they fir their role well, but UNSC ships put everything into their MACs and missiles, with PDG to handle fighters. Longswords more than held their own against seraphs and banshees in space, and the sabre raped all, and the Broadsword, cannot wait for that ingame.

Well, as I said, we can't limit the number you can have. We also have several ships that didn't exist in the canon in the game. Currently you can build gobs of supercarriers if you have the money. Anni worked hard on that ship, it's not leaving the mod.

In the interest of balancing, can we reduce the amount of fighter squadrons the Eion has from 3 to 2?

I'm actually more a fan of reducing the number of strikecraft in a squadron than removing a squadron. Right now there are 4 fighters and 3 bombers per squad. Originally I pushed for 2 fighters/bombers per squadron when we decided to nerf carriers.

[Defender0]

I'm actually more a fan of reducing the number of strikecraft in a squadron than removing a squadron. Right now there are 4 fighters and 3 bombers per squad. Originally I pushed for 2 fighters/bombers per squadron when we decided to nerf carriers.

ok, but if there are only 2 or 3 fighters per squadron, the amount of damage a longsword squadron can dish out will be reduced significantly. And while this could be mitigated by increasing the damage of each individual fighter, there should be a line where we say "no more".

So, with that in mind, should we increase the cost and/or supply of the Eion?

[Unikraken]

We can look into it, but my first reaction is no. The Eion itself is at a point where much more nerfing and it will become prohibitive.

[Defender0]

We can look into it, but my first reaction is no. The Eion itself is at a point where much more nerfing and it will become prohibitive.

Understandable, i just hope the AI doesnt spam them again

[Emberblaque]

Well it sounds like the AI makes carriers a priority at a certain point no matter what. I'm betting this is something everyone's going to have to deal with every once in awhile. All game AIs seemingly have idiosyncrasies like that, I imagine it'll remain that way for as long as AI is mostly heuristically modeled.

[Defender0]

Well it sounds like the AI makes carriers a priority at a certain point no matter what. I'm betting this is something everyone's going to have to deal with every once in awhile. All game AIs seemingly have idiosyncrasies like that, I imagine it'll remain that way for as long as AI is mostly heuristically modeled.

while i know this wont be an inconvenience when im actually trying in a game, it doesnt help at all when im testing changes dianno has made.. hopefully his buff to the covie starbase will help

[HTRK74JR]

well the supercarriers i dont care about, those things are so expensive, it is rare to have a full fleet if you field more than a few of them.


its the eions and the athens that spam them. in the lore, most classes could carrier a few fighters to help with point defense.

[Unikraken]

Also note that our mod takes place before the Fall of Reach, several years, in fact. Several key battles happened between our mod's time frame and the Battle of Reach, so there might have been more carriers at that time. I'll look into ways to stop carrier spam by the AI, but it may not be possible. We'll see.