34 replies to this topic

[oneilljamesvaughn5284]

Who Thinks The UNSC Tech Tree Is to short?

Edited by oneilljamesvaughn5284, 27 June 2013 - 06:53 PM.
Because I have problems with murdering the Queen's English

[sloosecannon]

Define too short.

 

Also,

 

*too.

 

FTFY (literally)

[D4RKST0RM99]

Who Thinks The UNSC Tech Tree Is too short?

The reason the tech tree it too short is that Dianno hasn't watered it enough, not to worry though as he is currently replanting as we speak and we shall soon enjoy the fruits of his labor

Tree analogies aside the tech trees are being reowrked and the UNSC/Covie balancing is also being retested.

[CanadaMan7]

There's a certain point where Research just become too long and tedious, but that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing it expanded a bit. Perhaps in time.

[atlas117b]

i liked it. i think it should take longer to get the higher up ships like destroyers and cruisers.  once u can build the halcyon, u can basicly make marathons.....

 

its good that its so expensive.  instead of clicking 1,2,3, u just have one for $2k-$4k. it is simplified but yet you have to really think about what u want (ie armor, health or damage)

 

what do the first couple ammo/targeting upgrades do? it doesnt really tell u a % increase or anything

[Defender0]

those upgrades unlock fleet buffs

[atlas117b]

oohhhh. nice

[Unikraken]

I don't see a destroyer as an upper level ship, personally. They still pop really easily.

[Dianno5741]

Well, yes and no to that. In the UNSC fleet without the capitals we have the Halcyon, which is old and its weapon systems are a joke (6 archer pods? lol) and the Marathon which is the king of the non capitals. the destroyer was simply looked down on by UNSC fleet because it didnt do what they wanted it do and it was simplier to use frigates en masse. That being said, gameplay wise and canon wise the research ive done has suggested that the destroyer was actually in use up to 1:1 ratios with frigates. Because of its dual MAC it is actually a balance between the firepower of a marathon and the frigates health making it a cost effective tough son of a bitch. The halcyon for all you fan boys unfortunately will be an early game ship designed to help you fight off the covenant rush because itll have twice the health of the frigates you field but not really a match for the destroyer or marathon classes. Thats not the pillar of autumn when i say halcyons, think pillar of autumn without the massive upgrades it recieved.

 

Dont worry Uni, your destroyer baby is shining more brightly than ever and people will want it more than any other ship. Literally.

 

 

Ive already updated the UNSC tech tree to have a few more tech upgrades and to not be as confusing. It looks alot better now as well. Plus a reference in there as well.

[D4RKST0RM99]

Considering the canonical uses of the ships from what I could tell from the books and games was that at some point during the war with the covenant the unsc stopped manufacturing the costly cruisers/ carrier(whatever they had were pulled back to protect the inner colonies) and started a frigate spam, they can be seen in the long night of solace mission in halo reach as a sampleing of what their shipyards were making at the time. Frigates became the workhorse of the fleet- cheap to build and able to transport troops and supplies to the fronlines, their smaller size made them ideal in ship to ship engagements being harder to hit than a hulking massive cruiser. Destroyers were given a similar role to the frigates but were mostly used for more combat orientated missions.

Come to think of it, if Keyes was captain of a cruiser instead of the Iroquois at Sigma Octanus IV- wouldn't the Keyes loop have failed?

[atlas117b]

would it be crazy to think the halcyon should come before the paris on the build tree?

 

Halcyon is really just a MASSIVE hull with really low attack.  Why not make it an earlier build, then the destroyer then paris? 

 

When im playing, i have 5 base frigates (cannon fodder), 15 paris (bulk of damage), 3-5 destroyers (shield for capital ships) and then capitals (nukes and abilities).

 

If ur thinking from the UNSC stand point, they need paris frigates to spam bigger ships and use destroyers to bulster the fleet with extra armor/attack/tech.  the halcyon (should really be considered a destroyer) is nothing more then a giant shield. marathon would be the ultimate non-capital fleet asset with maybe more abilities.  i just skip the cruisers and go to capital ships as it stands now.

 

I had much better reasoning an hour ago but i cant seem to type it all out now.

[atlas117b]

SNAP

 

what if destroyers only buffer halcyons, marathons and capitals? 

 

"The destroyer is a starship classification within the UNSC Navy. Fast, maneuverable, and designed for long-term endurance, destroyers were intended to escort larger vessels, such as the Marathon- and Halcyon-class cruisers."

[Unikraken]

http://en.wikipedia....er_strike_group

 

http://en.wikipedia....r_battle_groups

 

http://en.wikipedia....n_naval_tactics

[atlas117b]

ur killin me Uni if u think i can:

A. Read 

B. Read all that

C. Read all that and know which part u wanted me to focus on.

 

the only catch to modern naval warfare is 90% gets thrown out the window with the advent of the MAC. Naval Tactics from the ancient Greeks, Pirates of the Caribbean, WWI, WWII, Falkland islands, Gulf War and today are all different.  soo.... hundred years from now with space laser fights u can probably forget what we know today. 

 

or most of it

[m468]

ur killin me Uni if u think i can:
A. Read
B. Read all that
C. Read all that and know which part u wanted me to focus on.

the only catch to modern naval warfare is 90% gets thrown out the window with the advent of the MAC. Naval Tactics from the ancient Greeks, Pirates of the Caribbean, WWI, WWII, Falkland islands, Gulf War and today are all different. soo.... hundred years from now with space laser fights u can probably forget what we know today.

or most of it

Most of the formations will stay similar with regards to locations of ship classes all be it in the 3D world of space combat.

[Dianno5741]

First off, you cant just buff halcyons and cruisers. You can either buff all frigate entities (which everything non capital is considered a frigate in sins eyes) or not, Cant buff specific. cantdothatbecausehardcoding.jpg.

 

2nd. The halcyon comes around the same time as the paris now. With the new covenant balance, and even the UNSC balance, its meant as a stop gap between frigates and destroyers. As a halcyon has twice the hull now of a paris. it will take two shots from a  destroyer rather than getting 1 shot gibbed. Its canonly weak because canon wise the halcyon sucked. Its meant to help support your fledging fleets of frigates early and help get destroyers in place. once those are in place then you could start building marathons and thereby not needing halcyons anymore unless in oh shit moments due to its build time being 20 seconds less.

 

 

And we can either do what Halo has done, which is integrate modern ideas into futuristic settings (Coil gun = MAC). Or we can throw all of it out the window, but more than likely space combat (besides the Z axis component) would have been similar to whatever doctrine you chose. (Battleship toting fleets would use WW1 WW2 era surface fleet tactics) while carrier groups would use Modern day tactics. But we have to base these decisions in modern day fact. Otherwise we have no basis to even draw ideas from.

[CthulhuPanda36]

Space combat tactics are based on what technology you have. Gravitic drives and reaction drives will give you completely different movement patterns. Spinal mounted guns mean you have to face your opponet head on, large laser batteries would be good for broadsides.

[atlas117b]

Dianno5741, what i meant was if u look at combat in general, how ships are used today isnt the best way to go about planing for the future.  For the UNSC, fighter craft are not as necessry to win a Naval battle as they are today.  A single F/A 18 Super Hornet could sink a Cruiser with one Anti-Ship missle today.  In HALO the fighters are used totes different. 

 

The question i asked was "why do i need this ship?"  right now (in the public beta) the need for marathons or halcyons seems very limited.  I was thinking if the Halcyon was available really early it would act as a short term Capital Ship until stronger newer ships with better buffing were made available.       

[Defender0]

just an FYI, halcyons and marathons, along with berlins, are the only ships with any form of planetary bombardment besides capital ships. They are also very heavy ships (in terms of health/armor) compared to, say, a destroyer or frigate. If you dont get them, you will lose a heavyweight fight, aka EVERY fight with the covenant

[Normon]

^This, while they do seem like a waste with the UNSC's spamming policy, they really are essential to a successful battle group. As is the Cradle repair station.