100 replies to this topic

[Hageshii01]

I am currently at work, so apologies if I am actually remembering the game improperly here.

Currently in SotP: Rebellion the Covenant super destroyer requires 6 Holy Mausoleums to be built.  It's also EXTREMELY expensive to research, and extremely expensive to build.  It's role seems to be as a heavily offensive anti-ship flagship.

Then we have the Assault Carrier, which requires 8 Holy Mausoleums, and is much cheaper to both reseach and build.  It's role seems to be as a planetary attacker; it can bombard and do a lot of damage to a planet with its ability.

It seems odd to me that the SD is actually placed before the AC and requires fewer Mausoleums, while also being much more expensive.  What's the reasoning for this?  I understand that the AC is extremely iconic, but then the Halcyon is also very iconic but in this mod isn't really all that high up in the reseach tree for the UNSC.   The AC is also, as I understood, a ship-to-ship combat vessel; it's supposed to be great in fighting other ships.  Not that it *couldn't* function for taking out planets, but certainly not the main vessel.  The CCS actually seems very anti-planet.

My suggestion would be to do nothing more than switch the positions of the AC and SD.  Put the AC in the 6-Mausoleum slot and the SD in the 8-Mausoleum slot.


I had a further suggestion regarding the fact that you need to spend a large amount of resources just to unlock the ability to unlock these larger ships.  I forget the name of it; Large Warship or something; it's placed above the SD in the research tree.  Was this intended to slow-down the Covenant's ability to pump out large ships?  I personally wonder if it would be better to instead distribute some of the resource requirements onto the individual ships and have them take a bit longer to research.  (for example; I believe the SD costs 8000 credits, plus whatever other resources, to research.  Change that to 9000 or 10000 credits and increaset the research time by 30 or 40 seconds).  As it is, I personally feel that the extra research slot is too much of a time waster and really makes any larger Covie ships impractical to build.  I know that's partially the point, but when I need to spend about 24,000 credits to see just ONE SD, I think that's a bit excessive.  I could be wrong, though.

Apologies if I ranted a bit; I hope I made my suggestions clear.

[KhevaKins]

I agree that research for the sake of research is annoying. Paying large amounts of money to research the ability to research something doesn't sit right with me. Give me a +0.01% buff for something though and I am all good, it feels like... progress.

[Hageshii01]

I agree that research for the sake of research is annoying. Paying large amounts of money to research the ability to research something doesn't sit right with me. Give me a +0.01% buff for something though and I am all good, it feels like... progress.

That was something I considered as well; provide some sort of fleet-wide buff with the ability to research larger ships and it may be worth it.

[Cole Protocol]

The super destoroyer also costs 300 FLEET SUPPLY. Something i nearly screamed over in shock, so yes they should be switched, or the AC is made stronger, witch is what im rooting for.

[sloosecannon]

Remember that we're planning on having the superDestroyer be a Titan once we code it in. That's the reasoning behind the somewhat... odd costs. Imagine it as, for the time being, a pseudo-titan
PS: Yay for camelCase!

[Cole Protocol]

Remember that we're planning on having the superDestroyer be a Titan once we code it in. That's the reasoning behind the somewhat... odd costs. Imagine it as, for the time being, a pseudo-titan
PS: Yay for camelCase!

I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST A RUMOR!!!!!!

[Hageshii01]

Remember that we're planning on having the superDestroyer be a Titan once we code it in. That's the reasoning behind the somewhat... odd costs. Imagine it as, for the time being, a pseudo-titan
PS: Yay for camelCase!

Will that work properly considering it's relatively small size?  It is less than half the size of an Assault Carrier.  Will the Super Carrier from Reach also be a Titan?  And what of its position in the tree, needing only 6 Mausoleums?  I trust you guys, just have questions from my perspective.

[Antigeist]

I agree that having two research items, one of which is functionally useless, is a little silly. Just make the Super-Destroyer research 5000 credits or whatever and make it take longer.

 

The Super-Destroyer confuses me because I don't know that I've ever seen it shoot more than one target with the energy projectors at once. Maybe I just haven't been looking closely enough or it's been lost in the chaos, but I've never seen it engaging multiple targets at once with the EPs.

 

I was under the impression that in the lore it had 12 energy projectors, which suggests to me it should be able to engage and, with the damage energy projectors do, destroy multiple targets at a time. If it can't, and again maybe I just haven't witnessed it, then the Super-Destroyer feels a little like a glorified assault carrier. Twice the cost, less effective HP, and slightly more damage.

 

I think it's compounded by the fact that the refire rate for the weapons is so long now. Yes, the Super-Destroyer does significantly more damage than a CAS, but in a giant fight I don't know that things live long enough to make that damage difference really apparent. At the moment, I really don't think it's worth the 300 supply cost, either. For the same amount of resources, you can build 2 CAS and still have 220 supply left over. 

 

Those are my impressions of it after a couple games, but I'm willing to admit maybe I just haven't used it enough.

 

Edit: Bunch of posts got added while I was typing mine. I get that the SD is intended for Titan-status and that's the reason for the supply cost, but even as a titan, with its current stats I think I would have a hard time justifying building one.

[Cole Protocol]

Will that work properly considering it's relatively small size?  It is less than half the size of an Assault Carrier.  Will the Super Carrier from Reach also be a Titan?  And what of its position in the tree, needing only 6 Mausoleums?  I trust you guys, just have questions from my perspective.

It has seven energy projectors already and you want it to be bigger to hold more?

[Defender0]

guys, remember that the current super destroyer model is a place holder, and that the thing has 12 energy projectors. Hopefully, we can make it so that each of the energy projectors targets a single ship

[Hageshii01]

It has seven energy projectors already and you want it to be bigger to hold more?

No no, my point was that the SuperDestroyer is only about 2,000m long, while the CAS is over 5,000m long.  I don't know how SoSE handles Titans; maybe they don't have to be that large compared to other ships; the name Titan just suggests it.

 

 

guys, remember that the current super destroyer model is a place holder, and that the thing has 12 energy projectors. Hopefully, we can make it so that each of the energy projectors targets a single ship

I assumed as such, I just wanted a statement on it.  As it was I found it confusing.  Regardless though, I still wonder about it's position in the research tree compared to the CAS.  This makes it sound like it really should be further up.

[sloosecannon]

Will that work properly considering it's relatively small size?  It is less than half the size of an Assault Carrier.

Yep. Also remember the model is a placeholder - we'll get a better one that'll be more... intimidating.

Will the Super Carrier from Reach also be a Titan?

You're probably new here, so I'll just clue you in...

That's a thing around here. No, we will never put the SuperCarrier in. There are many reasons for this, but basically, that's a big ol' no, and asking about it is a good way to get soulnommed.

And what of its position in the tree, needing only 6 Mausoleums?  I trust you guys, just have questions from my perspective.

As Dianno and Uni have emphasized - the Covenant research is very much WIP. This may very well have not been changed from when we had it as a non-titan capital. Thanks for the feedback and for taking time to think about the mod!

[Dianno5741]

Gee maybe we should ask the designer and not speculate. The SD is in the running for titan and it's favored. But that could change. The OP is new so I'll cut him slack and inform him that NOVA bombs and plot device super carriers are heresey in these parts and will not be included. Its just a CAS upscaled. Now the tech was two reasons. Whats more dangerous? One SD or 6 CAS? The cas comes later as it is good at everything. The sd is specialized and is an ass ton more expensive. I hope that answers your question. Any others feel free to ask and I'll get to them if they are about balance or game design.

[Hageshii01]

Gee maybe we should ask the designer and not speculate. The SD is in the running for titan and it's favored. But that could change. The OP is new so I'll cut him slack and inform him that NOVA bombs and plot device super carriers are heresey in these parts and will not be included. Its just a CAS upscaled. Now the tech was two reasons. Whats more dangerous? One SD or 6 CAS? The cas comes later as it is good at everything. The sd is specialized and is an ass ton more expensive. I hope that answers your question. Any others feel free to ask and I'll get to them if they are about balance or game design.

I'm actually 100% *not* new here and know fully well that the plot device is hated here.  However, I had read something very very recently which suggested that the plot device *was* actually being brought in, much to my own personal chagrin.  However, seeing your guys' posts made me go back and double check what I just saw, and realized that oh, in fact I had read that incorrectly and, thankfully, the plot device will not be included.

Thanks for answering my questions, though.  I know the research is of course a WIP, as is the whole mod, but I wanted to provide some feedback.

 

Edit: For the record I'm in the mod, so yeah definitely not new. 

[Moustachio86]

For the record I'm in the mod, so yeah definitely not new.

Good reply, I like you.
Pray tell, I assume you're a voice?

[m468]

OK so to explain the canon on this... (I will misspell things as I am on my phone) the Super Destroyer (covenant battleship as it is called in the later versions of the comic) took a massive amount of hits from every weapon in the UNSC's arsenals (including nukes) before Admiral Cole basically said fire the everything! Which killed the damn thing. Now the CAS (which mostlikly stands for Covenant Assualt Ship) is almost always present (in decent numbers) at the large scale planetary invasions conducted by the Covenant. Its primary rile is to break through the fleet and defenses in orbit of a planet to deliver large numbers of troops and equipment to the surface.

In short Super Destroyer/ Battleship rare and terrifyingly effective at ship to ship combat and tu Assualt Carrier effective at engaging ships and defences on the way to the planet.

That is the lore. Now for how they are designed to be used in the mod ad of now. Just a reminder this is subject to change.

The CAS is should be your most common capital. It however should not be used in such numbers that it limits the numbers of frigates and cruisers that you can build. The Super Destroyer is not yet where we want it because we do not have the titan mechanic implemented. As a result its know and of out of whack. It will be a ship capable of taking a tremendous amount of MACs (kinda like JrSpartan's Mom) and still hitting the enemy. It will be titan level when we are done with it.

[Hageshii01]

Good reply, I like you.
Pray tell, I assume you're a voice?

I am indeed.  Guess which!

 

 

OK so to explain the canon on this... (I will misspell things as I am on my phone) the Super Destroyer (covenant battleship as it is called in the later versions of the comic) took a massive amount of hits from every weapon in the UNSC's arsenals (including nukes) before Admiral Cole basically said fire the everything! Which killed the damn thing. Now the CAS (which mostlikly stands for Covenant Assualt Ship) is almost always present (in decent numbers) at the large scale planetary invasions conducted by the Covenant. Its primary rile is to break through the fleet and defenses in orbit of a planet to deliver large numbers of troops and equipment to the surface.

In short Super Destroyer/ Battleship rare and terrifyingly effective at ship to ship combat and tu Assualt Carrier effective at engaging ships and defences on the way to the planet.

That is the lore. Now for how they are designed to be used in the mod ad of now. Just a reminder this is subject to change.

The CAS is should be your most common capital. It however should not be used in such numbers that it limits the numbers of frigates and cruisers that you can build. The Super Destroyer is not yet where we want it because we do not have the titan mechanic implemented. As a result its know and of out of whack. It will be a ship capable of taking a tremendous amount of MACs (kinda like JrSpartan's Mom) and still hitting the enemy. It will be titan level when we are done with it.

This makes excellent sense to me.  I appeciate the explanation.  Is that why the CAS is last in the tree?  So there are noticably fewer of them?

[SPECTRE]

I think they are rather justified, giving their strength.

[Moustachio86]

I am indeed. Guess which!


This makes excellent sense to me. I appeciate the explanation. Is that why the CAS is last in the tree? So there are noticably fewer of them?

CAS is later because it's more powerful when used correctly (technically). Ideally you want a fair few of them, it just seems counter intuitive the highest tech ship should be one of the most common, but that's how the Covenant plays. It's almost spam of a different kind. I may put in a request that they do more planet bombing damage or else have an ability that means planets fall rather quickly before them, they used to be able to colonise and I think they lost that very recently, I may be wrong, I haven't had the time to download yet.

Also, I have no clue. I only know you aren't the Athens. Hell, you could be the Orion for all I know. I would even take a stab if I knew your country but I can't get anything.

[Hageshii01]

CAS is later because it's more powerful when used correctly (technically). Ideally you want a fair few of them, it just seems counter intuitive the highest tech ship should be one of the most common, but that's how the Covenant plays. It's almost spam of a different kind. I may put in a request that they do more planet bombing damage or else have an ability that means planets fall rather quickly before them, they used to be able to colonise and I think they lost that very recently, I may be wrong, I haven't had the time to download yet.

Also, I have no clue. I only know you aren't the Athens. Hell, you could be the Orion for all I know. I would even take a stab if I knew your country but I can't get anything.

This does make sense.

Also United States.  From Massachusetts.