54 replies to this topic

[Death]

The usage of scale as an argument is one I promptly went ahead and squashed as it's a rehashed one that bares no actual merit within the SoaSE engine.

 

However the idea of the plot device being the upsized CAS is still an issue. Traditionally these "Super Ships" have something unique about their designs. The Executor Class Dreadnought is distinguishable from the ISDs. The Mantle's Approach is distinguishable from the rest of the Forerunner fleet. The UNSC Infinity is distinguishable from the rest of the UNSC Fleet.

 

However the plot device, if nothing was there to give a comparison as to the scaling than it would just look like a CAS.

Though it can be said about the CRS vs the CCS. If nothing was there to give a sense of scale then you wouldn't be able to determine which is which.

Then again the plot device holds the "Super Ship" status not some piss frigate nobody gives a fuck about.

 

I thank you for saying this.  So I guess...way to be lazy Bungie.

[MrChipps]

I love the fact that chips did this to attempt to get the kraken to eat some souls to get better.
Instead we ended up with this.

Not to worry, those of you with souls have been slowly drained of it .............enjoy all that free space your soul was blocking, oh and now that you don't have a soul anymore I suggest filling that void with IKEA furniture!!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Zero]

Though it can be said about the CRS vs the CCS. If nothing was there to give a sense of scale then you wouldn't be able to determine which is which.

Well not entirely true as both ships have different textures in the mod. For Homefront I made the CRS purple and removed some details so it more resembles the Halo CE CCS (2 fins on front instead of four, less detailing on the top and bottom):

[Rovert10]

Well not entirely true as both ships have different textures in the mod. For Homefront I made the CRS purple and removed some details so it more resembles the Halo CE CCS (2 fins on front instead of four, less detailing on the top and bottom):

I meant design wise in the actual cannon but okay lol.

Very few are going to know by glance where as other ships you can almost instantly tell.

[Zero]

I meant design wise in the actual cannon but okay lol.

Very few are going to know by glance where as other ships you can almost instantly tell.

Yeah I knew what you meant, I just wanted to be an ass.

[D4RKST0RM99]

I feel I need to repost this-

 

CAS  Assault carrier 5.346km

UNSC Infinity 5.694km

plot device Super Carrier 28.960km

Fortress class 100km

Mantle's Approach (height) 371.4km

 

I'd consider M'sA the exception to the mod (with a much reduced size of course) because their are no other unique and well explored Forerunner capital ships to use unlike the Covenant's wide selection.

 

Also the picture is an exaggeration for the sake of a giggle, I don't see the point in putting all the effort into bringing the plot device into the mod then reducing its size to slightly larger than the CAS(or upscale the CAS) if the modders did that then they'd be no more lazier than bungie for puting it in Reach in the first place, the Titan for its faction should represent the best of that faction with a unique and hopefully recognizable ship not a copy of an existing ship.

 

And on a personal note I was annoyed after Reach when I updated my Halo ship scale chart, I had a design all thought out for the Super Carrier with the hope the canon/bungie version would be something better to replace mine, instead we were landed with the "super-size me" CAS and I had to trash my own design for the canon one.

[Lord Stark]

 http://halo.bungie.o..._corv_scale.jpg

^Why does this look to be a different color than the CAS in other material?

 

Also couldn't we just go with this as the scale for the Super-Destroyer if people have an issue with the sizing of the Covie titan?

 

http://static2.wikia...erCarrier1j.jpg

[Cmdr Daefaron]

I honestly don't have a problem with the plot device.

 

Its a plot device in the same way as Halo was a plot device, or the Infinity was a plot device; it was there to progress the plot. The design is annoying, but we see the same thing happening in a lot of other ships as well, such as the Charon class and the Paris class. 

 

I honestly don't understand the amount of antipathy people are directing towards it. I have a feeling its a bandwagon thing, where people hate it because its cool to hate it.

Although I'd be interested in knowing the positions people have on the plot device, and why they feel that way. 

My views exactly. It seems people hate it to hate it, despite the fact the CRS light cruiser uses a similar if not almost 99% identical design to the CCS, and infact for a while after halo 4 came out it was debated if those were supposed to be CCS class ships or not. I personally HATE the "Oh they are lazy and just upsized it!" arguments. If you hate on one, hate on the rest too. The CRS class and all. But I understand and agree with the mod makers choice to leave it out of the mod.

 

To be fair; you make a well reasoned point. Personally I am completely apathetic towards the plot device. But for something to be so firmly denied so many times hints that it's almost a matter of principle by now. That said, I think the main issue is that scale is a serious point: if you just scale down the plot device, it becomes a CAS. On top of that, it's just too damn powerful, it can't be balanced with the mod based on halo lore, it's just regarded as invincible. I agree there's a little bit of double standards regarding the CCS and CRS issue when regarding the size but honestly it's just not worth the effort because it's so firmly embedded in the reasoning of the mod that it won't work. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet; exactly what the ship IS is kind of irrelevant, I'm personally more interested in what it does.

 

Exactly why I agree with leaving it out. Scale by itself.

 

 

Bungie's laziness aside the Covenant aren't know for their innovation so it wouldn't be likely they would design lots of different kinds of ships, just modify already existing ships. There are several examples like the plot device/CAS, and the CCS /CRS. Those are my examples.

Indeed, it's why I hate the "LAZY" line. 343 was just as lazy with the CRS design. And if you accept that, you accept the idea of the Covenant using similar ship models for varying sizes within a class type.

 

 

What is the point of ship that is not to scale? It makes things weird, and size is not even our problem with it, it is the lazyness of bungie that tics us off.

 

But the lazyness of 343 with the CRS doesn't? How does this make sense? Seriously. It is the EXACT same thing, but one pisses you off and the other does not? This is what bugs me. I hear the bulk of the hate being this line of "Bungie was lazy!" yet nobody bitches about the mini-CCS class cruisers in halo 4 (aka, CRS). Nobody complains how they are basically the exact same model shrunk down.

 

Personally, I like this guy's mod of the plot device. But I understand why it won't be in the mod period and I accept this fact.

 

http://guardian54.de...4/28454868&qo=2

[Death]

I feel I need to repost this-

 

CAS  Assault carrier 5.346km

UNSC Infinity 5.694km

plot device Super Carrier 28.960km

Fortress class 100km

Mantle's Approach (height) 371.4km

 

I'd consider M'sA the exception to the mod (with a much reduced size of course) because their are no other unique and well explored Forerunner capital ships to use unlike the Covenant's wide selection.

 

Also the picture is an exaggeration for the sake of a giggle, I don't see the point in putting all the effort into bringing the plot device into the mod then reducing its size to slightly larger than the CAS(or upscale the CAS) if the modders did that then they'd be no more lazier than bungie for puting it in Reach in the first place, the Titan for its faction should represent the best of that faction with a unique and hopefully recognizable ship not a copy of an existing ship.

 

And on a personal note I was annoyed after Reach when I updated my Halo ship scale chart, I had a design all thought out for the Super Carrier with the hope the canon/bungie version would be something better to replace mine, instead we were landed with the "super-size me" CAS and I had to trash my own design for the canon one.

 

 

There is also another fortress-class type which is 50km, which I suppose would be the first iteration of the ship, followed by the 100km version.

[D4RKST0RM99]

There is also another fortress-class type which is 50km, which I suppose would be the first iteration of the ship, followed by the 100km version.

True, for all we no they could be like startrek and have an entire line of them spaning the millenia. as great a ship as it is conveyed in the books they seemed a dime a dozen with nothing really Infinity special about it, my top two choices would either be the master builder's flag ship or the Mantle's Approach, the M'sA being the better option because it is current and we know what it looks like.

[Zero]

 http://halo.bungie.o..._corv_scale.jpg

^Why does this look to be a different color than the CAS in other material?

Again, it's different post-processing shaders. The first picture I linked above has the direct light on it where it shows the true silver color. Covenant ships in Reach have an added sheen to them through a special specular shader I'm assuming, somthing that was absent in previous games.

[sloosecannon]

Let's continue that elsewhere shall we? Preferably not somewhere public.

 

Nothing to see here, move along.

[Lavo]

For example in Star Wars: Empire at War Darth Vader's 19 km long flagship is in the game, but it is more like 5-8 kilometers long in game. 

 

You can't be seriously bringing EaW, let alone it's Executor, as a good example of anything. First off, EaW has pathfinding issues with anything larger than a VSD-2, and this gets extremely severe with anything Home One sized and larger. The Executor could not move. It simply would spin around, go in fuck all directions, and be not much more than an excellent target for fighters. Unless of course an enemy ship wandered in range or it was jumped right in the middle of an enemy fleet and kept still, which was a momentous task in EaW. On top of that, scaling in EaW was completely non-existent. Look at the scale of starfighters versus any other class, for obvious examples of this.

 

Star Wars: 

 

Bad guys--> Triangles

Good guys--> Space dicks

 

And then in the Clone Wars

 

Good Guys--> Triangles

Bad Guys--> Space dicks

By posting something as ignorant as this you make yourself look foolish. Yes, the entire SD line was very much triangular, even the Acclamator was shaped like an arrowhead. But the CIS and Alliance being shaped like dicks? Are you kidding me? The CIS had prominent ships in the movies, such as the Munificent and the infamous Lucrehulk which were far from being cigarette shaped. The Alliance had barely any cigar shaped ships outside of Home One; the Nebulon-B, CR90, MC80 Liberty, and other MC80 variants don't fit that description.

 

Stop yelling away the fanbase. They said they disagree but respect the decision. What you love about your logic is that it's dogma.

Or, you know, people could stop beating a dead horse and/or read the FAQ/QnA which happens to answer the "Will the plot device be in" question, which would prevent pointless and idiotic debates such as these. Alternatively people could have listened to logic and realized why the plot device as a ship simply would not work, however we cannot have people be logical, that would be a travesty.

[Emberblaque]

Or, you know, people could stop beating a dead horse and/or read the FAQ/QnA which happens to answer the "Will the plot device be in" question, which would prevent pointless and idiotic debates such as these. Alternatively people could have listened to logic and realized why the plot device as a ship simply would not work, however we cannot have people be logical, that would be a travesty.

It's a probabilistic certainty that you're going to have fans that don't look at the FAQ, or who beat dead horses. And it doesn't matter because they're still fans. It's our job to spread the mod as far as possible, and I'm against anything that prevents that.

[Rovert10]

Alright this shit has gone long enough.

Locking this piece of shit.