92 replies to this topic

[Lord Stark]

You don't get me, Earth is in one of the most desolate spots in the galaxy, the furthest outpost from earth is 86 LY away(real terms) there are roughly 3496 stars in that radii, with a fleet (300 ships say) you could scout out all stars, in weeks, or perhaps even days.

Where are you getting that 86 lys is the farthest colony?

[Verteros]

You don't get me, Earth is in one of the most desolate spots in the galaxy, the furthest outpost from earth is 86 LY away(real terms) there are roughly 3496 stars in that radii, with a fleet (300 ships say) you could scout out all stars, in weeks, or perhaps even days.

I'm not saying its incorrect. 

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Sure but how would they know to search around there at all? Expand that radius and you have 20,000 stars, expand it further you have 50 million stars and you haven't even hit a fraction of the galaxy's size yet. 

[sloosecannon]

I think the point's been picked up on already which I would see as my main issue: glassing offers little benefit to the Covenant. As you don't have a religious unity factor to worry about, glassing is essentially what planetary invasions are. The difference is the Covenant didn't (to my immediate knowledge) bother colonising once they'd glassed, whereas the principle of sins to turn the planets to your side. Basically if you glass every planet in a row you end up being overextended (think of the issues with blitzkrieg). The point about making Covenant similar to VL is an idea I have a lot of support for, culture issue aside, maybe glassing could be a stripped to the core replacement offering some bonuses, though I suspect the potential benefits are extremely limited. For instance, though it would be nice if glassing gave a research buff (simulating artefact pillaging) I just don't think it's possible.

Tactically though, there may be an advantage to glassing. All things considered, it may be advantageous to make a hostile world uncolonizable rather than taking it yourself, for the very possibliltiy of becoming overextended. Since the Covenant have virtually no effective defense in the least, it's tough to keep the worlds you've taken - you might get caught up in a war of attrition and stall out your attack, meaning the UNSC can build up its tech advantage. Preventing colonization means the UNSC can't turtle the planet - since the defense is the main UNSC advantage in battle, it may be advantageous to glass the planets as you go and force the UNSC back.

[SPECTRE]

It wasn't even a colony it was an oupost. A boulder.

Right lets do math.

You have 300 ships capable of doing 900 LY/day there are approximately 3496 stars (not systems) you have to search in about an 86 L/Y radius.  

You could do it in 10 hours.

[Stephan-338]

Tactically though, there may be an advantage to glassing. All things considered, it may be advantageous to make a hostile world uncolonizable rather than taking it yourself, for the very possibliltiy of becoming overextended. Since the Covenant have virtually no effective defense in the least, it's tough to keep the worlds you've taken - you might get caught up in a war of attrition and stall out your attack, meaning the UNSC can build up its tech advantage. Preventing colonization means the UNSC can't turtle the planet - since the defense is the main UNSC advantage in battle, it may be advantageous to glass the planets as you go and force the UNSC back.

That's exactly what I was thinking

[Verteros]

Tactically though, there may be an advantage to glassing. All things considered, it may be advantageous to make a hostile world uncolonizable rather than taking it yourself, for the very possibliltiy of becoming overextended. Since the Covenant have virtually no effective defense in the least, it's tough to keep the worlds you've taken - you might get caught up in a war of attrition and stall out your attack, meaning the UNSC can build up its tech advantage. Preventing colonization means the UNSC can't turtle the planet - since the defense is the main UNSC advantage in battle, it may be advantageous to glass the planets as you go and force the UNSC back.

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I imagine it would be right tricky to maintain a fair balance for the UNSC though. 

[Lord Stark]

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Sure but how would they know to search around there at all? Expand that radius and you have 20,000 stars, expand it further you have 50 million stars and you haven't even hit a fraction of the galaxy's size yet. 

Yeah.  The Covies initially thought humanity was limited to only Harvest.  After that it was anyone's guess how widespread they were.

[Verteros]

It wasn't even a colony it was an oupost. A boulder.

Right lets do math.

You have 300 ships capable of doing 900 LY/day there are approximately 3496 stars (not systems) you have to search in about an 86 L/Y radius.  

You could do it in 10 hours.

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You do realize there are only 800 UEG worlds in the Orion Arm which contains 16-20 billion stars. You have any idea how long it would take with even 10,000 ships to search that much space? 

Edit: Did a quick bit of math, each ship would need to do two million jumps. 

[SPECTRE]

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You do realize there are only 800 UEG worlds in the Orion Arm which contains 16-20 billion stars. You have any idea how long it would take with even 10,000 ships to search that much space? 

You don't have to search that many stars. the Orion arm contains a lot less stars than that, the whole galaxy is 300 billion stars. You just search the stars until you don't find any more colonies.

My point is they could find all the colonies and earth with 300 scout ships in 2 days. Not the whole arm.

[Lord Stark]

It wasn't even a colony it was an oupost. A boulder.

Right lets do math.

You have 300 ships capable of doing 900 LY/day there are approximately 3496 stars (not systems) you have to search in about an 86 L/Y radius.  

You could do it in 10 hours.

Where are you getting that UNSC space is 86 light years in radius?  Harvest to Madrigal alone is 84 light years.  And Madrigal isn't even an Inner Colony.  

[SPECTRE]

Where are you getting that UNSC space is 86 light years in radius?  Harvest to Madrigal alone is 84 light years.  And Madrigal isn't even an Inner Colony.  

85. do a check on where 23 librae is.

[Verteros]

You don't have to search that many stars. the Orion arm contains a lot less stars than that, the whole galaxy is 300 billion stars. You just search the stars until you don't find any more colonies.

My point is they could find all the colonies and earth with 300 scout ships in 2 days. Not the whole arm.

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You sure you aren't mistaking the Orion Arm with the Orion Belt?

[SPECTRE]

The orion arm is 10,000 L/Y in length the covenant could map all the stars (but not explore them) in 10 days.

Furthermore, there are 63 stars in the same radius as the distance to harvest.

[Lord Stark]

85. do a check on where 23 librae is.

83.7 rounds up to 84.  Distance between 23 Librae and Earth is 84 light years.  The distance between Harvest and Madrigal is 2 weeks, so 120.45 light years seems like the minimum.  Furthermore Harvest was the farthest colony when it was founded in 2468, the UNSC had 57 years between First Contact and the founding of Harvest.  If you want to use Contact Harvest as a source, Harvest is said to be the UNSC's seventeenth world to be settled.  The UNSC has 800 worlds by the time of First Contact. 

[Verteros]

85. do a check on where 23 librae is.

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I wouldn't trust wikia pages on tiny details like that, it's all very contradictory. For example one pages says that Madrigal is an outer world yet Harvest is the outermost world in the UNSC, however in the real world Harvest is 60 lightyears closer to Earth than Madrigal. 

[SPECTRE]

83.7 rounds up to 84.  Distance between 23 Librae and Earth is 84 light years.  The distance between Harvest and Madrigal is 2 weeks, so 120.45 light years seems like the minimum.  Furthermore Harvest was the farthest colony when it was founded in 2468, the UNSC had 57 years between First Contact and the founding of Harvest.  If you want to use Contact Harvest as a source, Harvest is said to be the UNSC's seventeenth world to be settled.  The UNSC has 800 worlds by the time of First Contact. 

26.1 parsecs = 85 L/Y 

800 colonies is not the same as 800 worlds.

 

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I wouldn't trust wikia pages on tiny details like that, it's all very contradictory. For example one pages says that Madrigal is an outer world yet Harvest is the outermost world in the UNSC, however in the real world Harvest is 60 lightyears closer to Earth than Madrigal. 

C=earth

B= HARVEST

A= madrigal.

Factor in an Z axis too.

[Verteros]

 

26.1 parsecs = 85 L/Y 

800 colonies is not the same as 800 worlds.

 

 

 

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Where'd you get colonies from, I've only ever seen worlds with notes saying that many developed into fully fledged colonies. 

Also how would that make sense if Madrigal is 85 lightyears from earth and Harvest is 17. (or however many, I forgot the specific)

[SPECTRE]

the bestarium.

Check my post. the one with triangle.

[Verteros]

the bestarium.

Check my post. the one with triangle.

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I'm not catching what you want me to look at, in either event it's 3:30am for me and I'm buggered. Talk to you another time, mate. 

[Lord Stark]

the bestarium.

Check my post. the one with triangle.

Do you have some sort of proof that Earth, Madrigal, and Harvest form a 90 degree angle?