211 replies to this topic

[Unikraken]

We haven't really laid out our vision for the Covenant faction in any great detail before, so I thought I'd crowdsource the community and see what you think of the overarching theme we're going with for the Covenant.

The best way to talk about what the Covenant fleet will be like is to contrast it with the UNSC.

The UNSC is all about support. Pretty much all non-capital ships buff the fleet in some way, making them all valuable in a good fleet. UNSC capital ships are heavy hitters that have direct damage and fleet buffing abilities, but they're largely there for the nuke and DPS.

The Covenant will be a little different. We don't see the Covenant ideology, largely influenced by Sangheili culture, to value ship support/aid on a fleet-wide scale. Survival of the fittest comes to mind when describing the Covenant. Individual Covenant ships will be powerful, with abilities that are unique to the ship class and deal death to their enemies, as opposed to buffing their fleetmates. Capital ships will be the only ships that buff friendly units, as they are seen as flagships of the fleet, with experienced field commanders who are able to look past ideology and see what needs to be done to defeat their foes.

With the Covenant you won't see repair barges like the UNSC have, ships will be expected to fend for themselves or perish in their disgrace. You also won't see a SMAC equivalent for planetary defenses. The Covenant move faster than the UNSC and you'll be expected to be able to get home quickly. Mobility will be a key feature for them. There will be light planetary defenses, but don't expect it so save your ass when a fleet arrives.

Glassing planets will be a key part of Covenant strategy as well. Choosing whether to Colonize or Glass will be a constant part of commanding the Covenant. Glassing won't be permanent and will take effort on your part, but glassing a valuable enemy world that you know you wouldn't be able to keep yourself will set your enemy back significantly and ensure your dominance.

The UNSC may have numbers, but you will have the strength to persevere!

(Give us your thoughts below.)

[CanadaMan7]

The Covenant will be a little different. We don't see the Covenant ideology, largely influenced by Sangheili culture, to value ship support/aid on a fleet-wide scale. Survival of the fittest comes to mind when describing the Covenant. Individual Covenant ships will be powerful, with abilities that are unique to the ship class and deal death to their enemies, as opposed to buffing their fleetmates. Capital ships will be the only ships that buff friendly units, as they are seen as flagships of the fleet, with experienced field commanders who are able to look past ideology and see what needs to be done to defeat their foes.

This. Think of the Sanghelli as Samurai warriors/Knights. The newer ones on the block are loyal to the Covenant, but are trying to increase their prestige at whatever cost. Tends to make the Covenant have less of a social dynamic that will be reflected in their lack of fleet buffs.

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

Epic. I am a horrible economist so I will be used to not being able to purchase as many ships.

[Defender0]

On a side note, me and Despoiler have been helping Dianno balance the covenant against their UNSC counterparts, and let me just say, its coming along great, and at least half the frigates/cruisers are balanced at this point. The three of us are also discussing various abilities for each covenant ship, including potential capital ship abilities

[Unikraken]

Lately we've been discussing ship weaponry for the Covenant. Expect to see lots of plasma and lasers. I can go into more depth if anyone is interested.

[Defender0]

Epic. I am a horrible economist so I will be used to not being able to purchase as many ships.

not necessarily, covenant ships cost more than their UNSC counterparts by a significant amount

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

Lately we've been discussing ship weaponry for the Covenant. Expect to see lots of plasma and lasers. I can go into more depth if anyone is interested.

Please do. I mean, Agagagagaga. (check profile)

[Moustachio86]

Weaponry has to be plasma, maybe the focused glassing beam on the capitals to match shivas. Otherwise, strike craft are also a consideration but I know system limits mean seraph swarms are a no-no.
Overall I think you seem to have it covered, they should be more aggressive and fight as individuals rather than as a whole, certainly the honour thing shows through in that and I think a lack of buffs on the small scale fits well. That said, I can't shake the feeling that there should be a sense of hegemony amongst the ships in a fleet, I mean they're arguably more united than the UNSC in terms of social doctrines so maybe this should show through in the civic techs. Maybe the fleet upkeep cost is reduced due to it already being in existence or something.

Also, I think this has been discussed before, but they should have a powerful (but obviously balanced) starting position, but perhaps let it taper as time goes on, with a less decisive, or simply less powerful endgame. That way they're encouraged to anihilate the enemy quickly rather than let the humans try to build up in terms of tech which is, in 'reality', more or less what happened.
That said, the last thing we want is just a picket rush to be successful so that's got to be carefully managed too.

[Moustachio86]

Also, suicide ships. I know the Advent has them and it just seems to fit so well, some of the smaller ships (perhaps even the larger ones) would be happy to sacrifice themselves for the great journey. I'm talking more of a kamikaze on one ship to deal large damage rather than an AOE type deal. It would mean UNSC captains would have to constantly be on the lookouts or risk losing some of their most valuable ships to an enemy they thought they had neutered.

[Emberblaque]

Also, suicide ships. I know the Advent has them and it just seems to fit so well, some of the smaller ships (perhaps even the larger ones) would be happy to sacrifice themselves for the great journey. I'm talking more of a kamikaze on one ship to deal large damage rather than an AOE type deal. It would mean UNSC captains would have to constantly be on the lookouts or risk losing some of their most valuable ships to an enemy they thought they had neutered.

This idea's been rejected several times already, I'm sorry to tell you.

[Kommrad II]

It'll probably be for the best if each covvie ship was worth one or two of its UNSC counterparts. Covenant ships are pretty much better in every respect compared to any UNSC ship, and their abilities/damage should reflect that but not to the point of OPness cause that shit ain't fun.

Also, I was thinking that if the covvie ships cost a little more, a last ditch sacrifice of a UNSC cap ship to deliver a nuke to the heart of a bunched up covvie fleet would make it feel so much better for the UNSC player and that much worse for the covvie player for bunching up like that.
And to touch on the lack of repair ships, could the shipyards double as repair stations due to all the engineers onboard them that actually make the ships?

[Defender0]

It'll probably be for the best if each covvie ship was worth one or two of its UNSC counterparts. Covenant ships are pretty much better in every respect compared to any UNSC ship, and their abilities/damage should reflect that but not to the point of OPness cause that shit ain't fun.

covie ships are pretty expensive compared to their UNSC counterparts, to the point of being around twice as much on average i think

[JasonAHawkins]

It'll probably be for the best if each covvie ship was worth one or two of its UNSC counterparts.

The idea is a 3:1 ratio. 3 UNSC Frigates versus one Covenant frigate and the UNSC could possibly survive with a crippled frigate. But head to head 1v1 the Covenant would win, same goes for any equivalent ship to counterpart engagement.

[Kommrad II]

Really? Sweet!

[Defender0]

The idea is a 3:1 ratio. 3 UNSC Frigates versus one Covenant frigate and the UNSC could possibly survive with a crippled frigate. But head to head 1v1 the Covenant would win, same goes for any equivalent ship to counterpart engagement.

and thank Dianno for balancing many of the covie frigates to be balanced in this ratio against the UNSC

[Unikraken]

Really? Sweet!

We strive to meet the demands of the official storyline and a 3:1 ratio for ships is one of those key points. Right now Dianno is doing just that, if he's not already done, but there is still much work to be done.

[JasonAHawkins]

How effective will Seraph fighters/bombers be compared to their UNSC counterparts? And how many frigates would it take to destroy a Supercarrier?

[Dhoulmegus]

How effective will Seraph fighters/bombers be compared to their UNSC counterparts? And how many frigates would it take to destroy a Supercarrier?

I hope you mean the UNSC supercarrier...

[Unikraken]

We don't scale ships by how many frigates it takes to kill them. We scale them by the ship tier underneath them, plus or minus a little, so I can't say. Covie fighers/bombers will be less effective than their UNSC counterparts, as it is in the games.

[ShadowOfIntent]

I hope you mean the UNSC supercarrier...

I don't see why the mod team doesn't create their own custom covenant super-carrier, so it doesnt have to be so super-uber. It's not like Reach was actually something Bungie was super-excited to work on in the first place, otherwise it would of been ten-times better. Anyone that can't handle a little creativity isn't fit to surf the internet.