People unhappy about the Eion spam.
#1
Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:04 AM
#2
Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:13 AM
#3
Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:17 AM
Before this I was worried that the Eion's needed to be nerfed, but this is a really good point. There's a clear, cheap, quickly produced counter to this very common strategy. Eion's more expensive than a Halcyon, and requires more military structures to research for a marginally higher amount of strikecraft.
Yup Mako's essentially can turn the tide of entire battle because they lay into sabres just as much as they do longswords, making them in my honest opinion a must when commencing large fleet battles, or assaulting a highly defended world that is swarming with hangars. Plus when they are well upgraded they can make it as though there never were any strike craft to begin with. It is really sad to see how this ship has been so overlooked in the past because people would just counter eion spam with eion spamming of their own making the games lag and a total bitch to deal with.
#4
Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:53 AM
#5
Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:25 PM
Combine makos with a fighter screen and a well balanced fleet composed of shit that have point defense usually negates the effectiveness strike craft spam. Unless your computer cannot handle the large numbers of objects being used....
Personally I don't think you can really screen anything in the game because the player can micro his ships to ignore the fighters and go right after the primary targets. but you are right in the sense that the game can't actually make those sort of choices on their own and will go after whatever is closest or micro their attacks rather poorly.
#6
Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:45 PM
#7
Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:49 PM
Fighter scenes are meant to intercept inbound bombers I would love for my opponent to ignore my fighters
Yes but you forget the Mako's man... You always keep the mako's at pace with the rest of the main fleet. No fighter will last long against a mako.
#8
Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:51 PM
Also this may lead to nerfs to anti-strikecraft abilities. We'll see.
- HTRK74JR likes this
[10:46:02 PM] VDNKh: Piercing Lance
[10:46:11 PM] VDNKh: fitting name for the ship that just fucked me
"Unikraken can soothe any nasties."
#9
Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:53 PM
#10
Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:59 PM
So I'll address this here, we've nerfed strikecraft in the most recent update to the internal build. We've decided to go the HHF route and go with few but powerful strikecraft. Squadrons of UNSC fighters and bombers are now groups of two craft. They move faster and are more powerful than they were before to compensate for some of that, but carrier spam is no longer a viable option. A varied fleet with some carriers is the better route.
Also this may lead to nerfs to anti-strikecraft abilities. We'll see.
But if they are more powerful then wouldn't that just reinforce the need of anti-strikecraft ships like the mako? Because if the other ships can't put down the strike craft as fast and they are getting torn apart by the now more powerful models you would need a ship that can take them out and fast.
#11
Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:01 PM
But if they are more powerful then wouldn't that just reinforce the need of anti-strikecraft ships like the mako? Because if the other ships can't put down the strike craft as fast and they are getting torn apart by the now more powerful models you would need a ship that can take them out and fast.
Well, the number of individual fighters and bombers is dropping, so AA may just shred them to pieces. I'm not working on a nerf or anything like that at the moment, I'm saying "test this so we can see how it goes". It make work out perfectly, or it may not.
[10:46:02 PM] VDNKh: Piercing Lance
[10:46:11 PM] VDNKh: fitting name for the ship that just fucked me
"Unikraken can soothe any nasties."
#12
Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:04 PM
Well, the number of individual fighters and bombers is dropping, so AA may just shred them to pieces. I'm not working on a nerf or anything like that at the moment, I'm saying "test this so we can see how it goes". It make work out perfectly, or it may not.
Personally it just seems like a bit of a unneeded modification since if you give them less strike but make them more powerful it really just balances out in the end since they are also faster now too. I think people should just learn how to click on the Mako button.
Could put it to a vote.
whether or not its worth reducing the strikecraft number and enhancing them in firepower and speed or if people should just the already highly effective counter known as the Mako.
#13
Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:23 PM
Personally it just seems like a bit of a unneeded modification since if you give them less strike but make them more powerful it really just balances out in the end since they are also faster now too. I think people should just learn how to click on the Mako button.
Could put it to a vote.
whether or not its worth reducing the strikecraft number and enhancing them in firepower and speed or if people should just the already highly effective counter known as the Mako.
Let me reiterate this clearly: There are no current plans to nerf/buff AA capabilities. We have just buffed/nerfed strikecraft. That will require testing. Once testing has been done, we will know what needs to be buffed/nerfed/left alone. If everything works out perfectly, then we can all pat our backs and enjoy the game.
[10:46:02 PM] VDNKh: Piercing Lance
[10:46:11 PM] VDNKh: fitting name for the ship that just fucked me
"Unikraken can soothe any nasties."
#14
Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:32 PM
Let me reiterate this clearly: There are no current plans to nerf/buff AA capabilities. We have just buffed/nerfed strikecraft. That will require testing. Once testing has been done, we will know what needs to be buffed/nerfed/left alone. If everything works out perfectly, then we can all pat our backs and enjoy the game.
Fair enough.
#15
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:03 PM
Now, to adress the mako corvette argument. This assumes you are against someone who micromanages, so keep this in mind. While makos are a good counter for strikecraft, lets say you are under attack at a planet where you dont have a fleet. You have an offensive fleet moving in to defend, but you also have factories at that planet being attacked. So you start making Makos. Those makos, once they are built, will become priority targets and will be attacked first, forcing you to spend more money and make more makos. eventually, those factories will become priority targets as well, and get destroyed. this means you lose your mako corvette building at that planet, and will need to make more at another planet to get them there effectively. Once those makos arrive out of slipspace, they will be targetted immediately and get destroyed. This entire time, the eions are just sitting there while their strikecraft do all the work.
This is why i believe that a nerf to the Eion itself, not its strikecraft, is better in the long run, because if we nerf strikecraft, we are nerfing the entire UNSC navy's air force.
Take this as you will, this is just how i feel. If we nerf strikecraft, i will grudgingly accept it, but i will not leave because of it. I love this mod too much to leave.
#16
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:08 PM
#17
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:14 PM
[10:46:02 PM] VDNKh: Piercing Lance
[10:46:11 PM] VDNKh: fitting name for the ship that just fucked me
"Unikraken can soothe any nasties."
#18
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:19 PM
Strikecraft were never a strong part of the UNSC's force projection. Their capability in the mod previously was way off canon. This change makes them a nice addition to a fleet, but not the main component, as things should be. If you disagree, I will always refer you to the canon and from the canon it must come to change my mind. If you just want carrier based fun, I'm sure there are mods to provide that, but our goal has always been to bring about the most accurate and best Halo mod for SoaSE.
I just think that people should use Mako's since they are there to deal with the strike craft threats..... and be sacrficial pawns to scout when you are to far away to call up a prowler quickly.
#19
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:23 PM
Strikecraft were never a strong part of the UNSC's force projection. Their capability in the mod previously was way off canon. This change makes them a nice addition to a fleet, but not the main component, as things should be. If you disagree, I will always refer you to the canon and from the canon it must come to change my mind. If you just want carrier based fun, I'm sure there are mods to provide that, but our goal has always been to bring about the most accurate and best Halo mod for SoaSE.
In regards to canon, is there a general consensus on the ratio of carriers to the rest of the fleet? i would imagine it isnt that big, maybe 10% at the most
#20
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:24 PM
In regards to canon, is there a general consensus on the ratio of carriers to the rest of the fleet? i would imagine it isnt that big, maybe 10% at the most
I honestly thought that by time of the fall of reach there were less than that. Maybe at the most 10 carriers that were still on active patrol for the inner colonies.
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