58 replies to this topic

[Moustachio86]

I think there's a difference between just passive flood attacks and concerted efforts. A sufficiently prepared Infinity could easily fight off minor infections (as Chief did, repeatedly) but if a proper effort was made to destroy the Infinity, the flood would eventually win out. Infinity would win the battle but not the war, kinda thing.

[SPECTRE]

Some minor problems:

How would the Flood gain access to infinity?

How good is the internal security of Infinity (its the pride of humanity, with a metric butt tonne of top secret and forerunner tech so make that most likely high)

The infinity is a large ship, the humans require an AI to fly her and the AI require humans to fly her too- could the flood physically use fly her without either?

 

The forerunner fleet was large, and mostly automated, and those with organic crews had a small crew.

What wasn't hacked was infected.

[Moustachio86]

Some minor problems:
How would the Flood gain access to infinity?
How good is the internal security of Infinity (its the pride of humanity, with a metric butt tonne of top secret and forerunner tech so make that most likely high)
The infinity is a large ship, the humans require an AI to fly her and the AI require humans to fly her too- could the flood physically use fly her without either?

The forerunner fleet was large, and mostly automated, and those with organic crews had a small crew.
What wasn't hacked was infected.

I'm not going to be an evangelist for this but I'm in the mood for a civil debate so I'll bite:

Gain access like they do everywhere else. Spores are handy. Infected dropships or Trojan Horse style. There's no saying the infection has to be spread by force, subtle isn't the Flood's usual MO but I don't see why it couldn't sneak on.

Internal security, je ne sais pas regards actual spec but same argument. Spores in ventilation shafts (we need to breathe); un-mutated body parts for biometrics. The Prometheans managed to invade Infinity with moderate success, negotiating it's interior wouldn't be the biggest challenge. Proper lockdown procedures and effective SIV's would deal with this well, you're right.

Don't know if it's ever mentioned that humans NEED an A.I. to fly Infinity. But Mendicant Bias comes to mind: if you can sweet-talk a Forerunner A.I. into working for you, a human A.I. may not be too much trouble. Roland is a cut above everything so far but I refuse to believe he's more advanced than Forerunner constructs. We both know that, assuming A.I. aren't needed, flying the ship would be no problem provided they infected pilots.

I don't know enough about the Flood-Forerunner war to comment. Though as I understand Mendicant's betrayal had a large impact. Automated systems are great but if the automation turns against you then that's possibly worse than having manned ships.

Edit: I would be strongly in favour of titans (or at least Infinity) being immune to flood, for balance if nothing else. I'm simply theorising.

[SternuS]

I think there's a difference between just passive flood attacks and concerted efforts. A sufficiently prepared Infinity could easily fight off minor infections (as Chief did, repeatedly) but if a proper effort was made to destroy the Infinity, the flood would eventually win out. Infinity would win the battle but not the war, kinda thing.

Did Chief successfully fight off minor infections? Alpha Halo was infected, the POA was infected, High Charity was infected, In Amber Clad was infected, Delta Halo was infected, Earth was infected, the Ark was infected. All the battles Chief fought against the Flood, he lost them. The only victory we are aware of against the Flood is when 'Rtas glassed half Africa. And that was a single CCS-carried infection.

 

Seriously, Infinity couldn't repel an infection, not even the slightest one.

[SPECTRE]

Good explanations.

Abridged version:

Spoiler

Basically shortly after the forerunners made contact with the flood, they were stalemated. So mendicant bias, was sent to fight/learn about/negotiate with the flood, he instead defected, after 43 years of conversation with the prisoner of charum hakkor (the last precursor/Super gravemind). it hijacked a Halo, took it to the forerunner capital (or one of them), then in the ensuing battle he hijacked many of the automated fleets in orbit. This imitated the break in the stalemate and the beginning of bornstellar/iso-didacts military career. Leaving what little was left of the organic fleets at the disposal of the isodidact and offensive bias.

[Moustachio86]

That makes sense. I knew it boiled down a lot to Mendicant and that Offensive was built purely to defeat him (or buy enough time) but that's about it. I make no pretence that I haven't read a single Halo book, and I really should.

SternuS, I meant more in that he fought them off himself. Chief himself wasn't infected, though again, he lost the overall conflict to the flood. Same principle with the Infinity, you can lose to the flood but Infinity could (conceivably) survive. I don't personally think it would, but that's the idea.

[Lord Stark]

Did Chief successfully fight off minor infections? Alpha Halo was infected, the POA was infected, High Charity was infected, In Amber Clad was infected, Delta Halo was infected, Earth was infected, the Ark was infected. All the battles Chief fought against the Flood, he lost them. The only victory we are aware of against the Flood is when 'Rtas glassed half Africa. And that was a single CCS-carried infection.

 

Seriously, Infinity couldn't repel an infection, not even the slightest one.

That's actually not true.  Rtas only glassed Kenya, as per Halo: Spartan Assault, Hood was just being a dick.  Infinity's Spartan contingency has been training for Flood incursions ever since. 

 

4:25

[SPECTRE]

You would probably exaggerate if you just had a whole county and a lot of men glassed, while you watch.

[Lord Stark]

You would probably exaggerate if you just had a whole county and a lot of men glassed, while you watch.

Oh I understand, Hood just picked the wrong Sangheili to chide over the Flood.  Still one of my favorite scenes in the series.

 

"One single flood spore can destroy a species.  Were it not for the Arbiter's counsel, I would have glassed your entire planet."

 

 

 

Maybe a bit off topic, but didn't the Battle of Installation 05 and Ghosts of Onyx show that the Sangheili are actually really good at quarantining the Flood.  Shouldn't the covies be way better against the flood than the UNSC?

[sloosecannon]

Oh I understand, Hood just picked the wrong Sangheili to chide over the Flood. Still one of my favorite scenes in the series.

"One single flood spore can destroy a species. Were it not for the Arbiter's counsel, I would have glassed your entire planet."



Maybe a bit off topic, but didn't the Battle of Installation 05 and Ghosts of Onyx show that the Sangheili are actually really good at quarantining the Flood. Shouldn't the covies be way better against the flood than the UNSC?

I think their weakness came from the huge mass of unprotected bodies (grunts, jackals, brutes & all) - they are a perfect flood breeding ground

[Lord Stark]

Spoiler

"The holographic arc of Halo appeared on the main viewer. Four destroyers stood near,

abeam, and targeted hundreds of smaller craft—Phantoms, Spirits, and even Banshees—

that attempted to evacuate the surface of the ring structure. They burned these craft with

plasma bombardment and flashes of laser fire… but there were too many trying to escape.

Nothing could be allowed to leave that place. If a single

Flood-infected vessel transitioned to Slipspace—their existence would end. The plague

would never again be contained.

"Get me a fleetwide COM channel," he told Y'gar. "Use the Prophets' own frequencies."

"Signal acquired," Y'gar said. "Ready for fleetwide broadcast."

Voro spoke: "This is Ship Master Voro 'Mantakree of the Incorruptible to all loyal vessels

in the Second Fleet of Homogeneous Clarity.

"Brothers, we must cast out our confusion, and cease falling upon one another. The holy

relic is tainted. We must burn the corruption before it takes us all.

"Zasses," he ordered, "send coordinating target solutions to the fleet." He motioned over

the main holographic viewer, selecting portions of the Halo ring where dozens of Spirits were

slipping away. "We must stop them before they make contact with one of those destroyers."

"Aye, sir. Targeting solutions sent."

The majority of the fleet, sluggish and disoriented, slowly aligned into a coherent fighting

force: plasma arced from a hundred ships, and laser fire weaved lacy patterns on the dark of

space.

Under such a destructive salvo of combined fire, the smaller ships burned—leaving only

debris and skeletal frames.

"Do not close with the targets," Voro said over FLEETCOM. "Or the disease will spread."

His hands grasped the command console.

To the Lekgolo pair Voro whispered, "Sweep the ship, continuous patrol, until I order

otherwise. Report any hull breach no matter how slight. Any deaths. Anything that might be

Flood infection."-Halo: Ghosts of Onyx

Just some food for thought.

Edited by Sci Fi Dude777, 19 February 2014 - 03:10 PM.
Please use spoilers when quoting books

[SternuS]

That's actually not true.  Rtas only glassed Kenya, as per Halo: Spartan Assault, Hood was just being a dick.  Infinity's Spartan contingency has been training for Flood incursions ever since.

Only Kenya?

 

UNSC would've lost the battle with the Flood were it not for the Covenant. While S-IV are certainly well prepared for a Flood incursion, saying they could possibly repel the parasite is an hazard. What they could do is fend off the infection, giving some time for the crew of the ship/population of the planet to evacuate. But that ship or planet would inevitably be lost.

 

Let's not mythicize the S-IV's power.

[Lord Stark]

Only Kenya?

 

UNSC would've lost the battle with the Flood were it not for the Covenant. While S-IV are certainly well prepared for a Flood incursion, saying they could possibly repel the parasite is an hazard. What they could do is fend off the infection, giving some time for the crew of the ship/population of the planet to evacuate. But that ship or planet would inevitably be lost.

 

Let's not mythicize the S-IV's power.

Yes only Kenya.  The video covers it though, if the Covie's didn't glass Voi Earth would have fallen in hours.  

 

A single Spartan who was completely unprepared for the Flood was able to perform exceptionally well against the Flood with outdated MJOLNIR.  I don't see why 300+ Spartans trained to combat the Flood wouldn't able to contain a small contamination.  Also the CAS-class should be virtually immune to infection because they can literally just detatch infected sections of the warship.  

[D4RKST0RM99]

Yes only Kenya.  The video covers it though, if the Covie's didn't glass Voi Earth would have fallen in hours.  

 

A single Spartan who was completely unprepared for the Flood was able to perform exceptionally well against the Flood with outdated MJOLNIR.  I don't see why 300+ Spartans trained to combat the Flood wouldn't able to contain a small contamination.  Also the CAS-class should be virtually immune to infection because they can literally just detatch infected sections of the warship.  

i would not count the MC's actions as a typical spartan, also it wasn't just luck or skill that made him as effective, as from what we see in Halo 4 according to the Librarian, John and Cortana are the culmination of a thousand lifetimes of planning that would ensure they get to where they needed to be for the events of Halo 4 and beyond. This does leave me somewhat sceptical as to how far this goes as for her statement to be true she would be able to influence causality itself to make sure both of them did not perish before the events of Halo 4 rather than just influence their decisions and thinking though their genes.

[SternuS]

Yes only Kenya.  The video covers it though, if the Covie's didn't glass Voi Earth would have fallen in hours.  

 

A single Spartan who was completely unprepared for the Flood was able to perform exceptionally well against the Flood with outdated MJOLNIR.  I don't see why 300+ Spartans trained to combat the Flood wouldn't able to contain a small contamination.  Also the CAS-class should be virtually immune to infection because they can literally just detatch infected sections of the warship.  

Kenya is quite big, compared to a single CCS. Imagine how much surface the Covenant would've had to glass if High Charity had landed on Earth.

 

Because the Flood is a spore! A parasite. You don't kill a parasite with guns.

 

I'll end this here: gameplay wise, titans must not be captured by the Flood.

[Lord Stark]

Kenya is quite big, compared to a single CCS. Imagine how much surface the Covenant would've had to glass if High Charity had landed on Earth.

 

Because the Flood is a spore! A parasite. You don't kill a parasite with guns.

 

I'll end this here: gameplay wise, titans must not be captured by the Flood.

I doubt they even glassed the entirety of Kenya.  The memorial service at Voi shows much of the surrounding area to be quite intact.  You can't kill a flood with guns, you can kill it with flamethrowers and ala venting and detaching parts.  Remember the CAS in Halo: Legends detaching parts; that was a forerunner design.  Lore wise the CAS should be virtually uncapturable by the Flood as a prudent Shipmaster can immediately detatch any infected section.  

Also shouldn't Covenant shielding provide some protection against the Flood?

[sloosecannon]

I doubt they even glassed the entirety of Kenya.  The memorial service at Voi shows much of the surrounding area to be quite intact.  You can't kill a flood with guns, you can kill it with flamethrowers and ala venting and detaching parts.  Remember the CAS in Halo: Legends detaching parts; that was a forerunner design.  Lore wise the CAS should be virtually uncapturable by the Flood as a prudent Shipmaster can immediately detatch any infected section.  

Also shouldn't Covenant shielding provide some protection against the Flood?

Eh, nothing's uncapturable by the flood. Not even Forerunner AIs...

That would however make the CAS significantly more difficult to capture than most other ships.

I would say yes, shielding would provide protection, but Forerunner shielding should too, and... well... we see where that went.

[SPECTRE]

Eh, nothing's uncapturable by the flood. Not even Forerunner AIs...

That would however make the CAS significantly more difficult to capture than most other ships.

I would say yes, shielding would provide protection, but Forerunner shielding should too, and... well... we see where that went.

Depends on whether they are Hard or soft shields... Don't know if the shields are either.

[SternuS]

I doubt they even glassed the entirety of Kenya.  The memorial service at Voi shows much of the surrounding area to be quite intact.  You can't kill a flood with guns, you can kill it with flamethrowers and ala venting and detaching parts.  Remember the CAS in Halo: Legends detaching parts; that was a forerunner design.  Lore wise the CAS should be virtually uncapturable by the Flood as a prudent Shipmaster can immediately detatch any infected section. 

I really doubt you can kill it with anything. Forerunners used to create Slipspace fractures inside the infected ship, and some spores still managed to survive. Forerunners' weapons work by disintegrating biomass, while flamethrowers don't. 

 

Yes, but the CAS separated into two different sections; if the bow of the ship, containing the command deck, gets infected, the ship will be lost.

[Rovert10]

No flood infection for Titans.