67 replies to this topic

[Emperorfluffball]

There's no evidence for the other SMACs firing on it bro.  Hood is the commander of the entire Home Fleet.  He'd have just ordered the other platforms to attack.  Not to mention we can *see* the other platforms and none of them are firing.  And no...it isn't as I said all CASes are customizable and made to order as per canon.  Unlike Marathons which are ships of the line.
 

There's no evidence for the other SMACs not firing on it either. Hood didn't say anything to Cortana and Chief.

... umm cortana is an AI...
while this is known, whose to say that she wasn't sending targeting Info to the other station? also before the CAS's were even within effective targeting range the Athens and the Malta were destroyed remember? not before they got some kills but those kills were probably only CCS support ships...

I said it awhile ago... and i'll say it now...
the Plot device = Titan (preparing for the hate)
its the only ship that i know of that makes sense to use...
 

[Lord Stark]

There's no evidence for the other SMACs not firing on it either. Hood didn't say anything to Cortana and Chief. In Halo, people far away from one another generally speak over radio or other forms of communication. Hood was probably giving fire control options to the other platforms as Chief progressed. You're telling me that in the midst of a Covenant invasion the commander of the entire UNSC defensive forces would just tell the other platforms not to fire? They probably didn't fire due to gameplay limitations or developer oversight. Or, you know, the fact that Halo 2 was a rushed game that had half of it's content cut out due to time constrictions. I'm not arguing about the customization point, though that does raise a question. Why not equip all assault carriers with that caliber of shielding? It's reverse engineered so it can fit on Covenant ships so I don't see why they don't strap it onto every single one. Maybe it is costly and expensive, but as we know the Covenant was on no form of budget. 

 

My main issue is with the laziness of the idea. The differences between this thing and the standard CAS are so minute that it doesn't even call for making another ship. It would be better off as a technology upgrade that remodels and buffs the ship as Cole mentioned earlier. "Forerunner technology application" or something. It is hypocritical of the mod team for making such a fuss over the plot device and then go pull something like this.

 

inb4 devs make the mod doesnt matter what i think

Burden of proof is on you though.  If we want to go on unsubstantiated, then I can easily say that all the platforms in the region were firing on Regret's ship.  I have more evidence on that point.  Gameplay limitations?  Explain why that wasn't addressed in anniversary?  

As to why not equip all CASes with that type of shielding?  That answerer is obvious.  The Prophets don't trust the Sangheili. It makes sense that the San'Shyuum would keep some powerful artifacts in reserve.  Actually...no.  Its not the same as the plot device though.  The plot device was literally a scaled up model of the CAS to the point that the CASes in Reach have the same skin due to that design.  Aside from that this vessel will serve much better as a Titan than the Super Destroyer will.  The ship being scaled up, reskinned with a city on top is about as Lazy as the Executor-class Star Dreadnought...that is, not at all.

 

And while I do think the plot device would make a good Titan:

A. Discussion on this is virtually a bannable offense.

B. This is a good compromise.

[Crisiss]

Burden of proof is on you though.  If we want to go on unsubstantiated, then I can easily say that all the platforms in the region were firing on Regret's ship.  I have more evidence on that point.  Gameplay limitations?  Explain why that wasn't addressed in anniversary?  

As to why not equip all CASes with that type of shielding?  That answerer is obvious.  The Prophets don't trust the Sangheili. It makes sense that the San'Shyuum would keep some powerful artifacts in reserve.  Actually...no.  Its not the same as the plot device though.  The plot device was literally a scaled up model of the CAS to the point that the CASes in Reach have the same skin due to that design.  Aside from that this vessel will serve much better as a Titan than the Super Destroyer will.  The ship being scaled up, reskinned with a city on top is about as Lazy as the Executor-class Star Dreadnought...that is, not at all.

 

And while I do think the plot device would make a good Titan:

A. Discussion on this is virtually a bannable offense.

B. This is a good compromise.

Burden of proof might be on me but there is no proof for your claim either. Nowhere is anything said about any other SMAC targets. IIRC Anniversary only updated the campaign graphically (new meshes, models, and textures) so that wouldn't have been addressed. Fair enough point with the inferior shielding. The difference with the Executor is that it is an entirely new design. It is the Empire's thing to have giant space triangles but at least they look different and easily distinguishable. The Super Destroyer I agree should not be in the titan slot (unless they go for the SoGE-fuckery titan tech split) there surely must be a better alternative. I get it's your idea and you feel like this is a chance to make a lasting impression on the mod but I don't see it serving any purpose that isn't already sufficiently covered by either the battleship or the CAS. Like I said, design a new ship or leave the Covenant without a titan as a whole. They don't even have a ship that would work as a titan that the dev team is willing to accept, forcing anything won't make it any better. There is no niche for this thing to fill but "oh another ship for me to build."

 

And while I do think the plot device would make a terrible but better idea than this as a titan:

A: I did not mention implementing the plot device at all. You're responding to the wrong person there. I compared the concept, not the ship itself.

B: You're not compromising anything here.

 

Can you explain to me what niche this ship will fill that isn't already covered by another? The only thing I see this being useful for is SMAC rushing but if it is going to be taking multiple SMAC blasts this thing will be impossible to kill and will be game breaking. Even an ability that massively boosts shields even for a few seconds would be game breaking. I would like a gameplay-oriented response from you at some point.

[SiRD31M0S]

The Prophets don't trust the Sangheili.

As evidenced by the sharing of authority between Prophets and Elites for over three thousand years. The most recent Hierarchy's distrust was a very recent event. There's no historical precedent for Prophets skimming off the top.

 

 

It makes sense that the San'Shyuum would keep some powerful artifacts in reserve.  Actually...no.

Why did you even bother typing this?

 

 

Its not the same as the plot device though.

Good to know we have you here to decide that for us.

 

 

Aside from that this vessel will serve much better as a Titan than the Super Destroyer will.

How? What does it do? Why is it better?

[sloosecannon]

There's no evidence for the other SMACs firing on it bro.  Hood is the commander of the entire Home Fleet.  He'd have just ordered the other platforms to attack.  Not to mention we can *see* the other platforms and none of them are firing.  And no...it isn't as I said all CASes are customizable and made to order as per canon.  Unlike Marathons which are ships of the line.

There's no evidence for the other SMACs not firing on it either. Hood didn't say anything to Cortana and Chief.

... umm cortana is an AI...
while this is known, whose to say that she wasn't sending targeting Info to the other station? also before the CAS's were even within effective targeting range the Athens and the Malta were destroyed remember? not before they got some kills but those kills were probably only CCS support ships...

I said it awhile ago... and i'll say it now...
the Plot device = Titan (preparing for the hate)
its the only ship that i know of that makes sense to use...

I think you accidentally
 

formatted

your

quote

incorrectly

[Lord Stark]

Burden of proof might be on me but there is no proof for your claim either. Nowhere is anything said about any other SMAC targets. IIRC Anniversary only updated the campaign graphically (new meshes, models, and textures) so that wouldn't have been addressed. Fair enough point with the inferior shielding. The difference with the Executor is that it is an entirely new design. It is the Empire's thing to have giant space triangles but at least they look different and easily distinguishable. The Super Destroyer I agree should not be in the titan slot (unless they go for the SoGE-fuckery titan tech split) there surely must be a better alternative. I get it's your idea and you feel like this is a chance to make a lasting impression on the mod but I don't see it serving any purpose that isn't already sufficiently covered by either the battleship or the CAS. Like I said, design a new ship or leave the Covenant without a titan as a whole. They don't even have a ship that would work as a titan that the dev team is willing to accept, forcing anything won't make it any better. There is no niche for this thing to fill but "oh another ship for me to build."

 

And while I do think the plot device would make a terrible but better idea than this as a titan:

A: I did not mention implementing the plot device at all. You're responding to the wrong person there. I compared the concept, not the ship itself.

B: You're not compromising anything here.

 

Can you explain to me what niche this ship will fill that isn't already covered by another? The only thing I see this being useful for is SMAC rushing but if it is going to be taking multiple SMAC blasts this thing will be impossible to kill and will be game breaking. Even an ability that massively boosts shields even for a few seconds would be game breaking. I would like a gameplay-oriented response from you at some point.

You're the one making the claim.  I already proved that the fleet focused fire on one carrier and the Cairo focused on the other.  Furthermore the fact that boarding crafts were only sent to the Cairo, Athens, and Malta strongly suggests that those were the only ones that could hinder fleet's descent to Earth.  You're the one attempting to say 'yeah but the other ones could have been firing on it'.  Sure they could have, Lord Hood could have also said 'load the MAC with teacups' to fire at the carriers instead of slugs, but I have no evidence to prove that claim.  Do you even debate team bro?

 

Uhhh, but the Executor is a space triangle, with a square and a city put on it?  And Star Wars game designers disagree with you considering in Empire at War the Executor was pretty much the only "Titan" in the game.  + The designers got the idea for Titans in SOASE from the SSD.  The developers blatantly state Titans are "like a Super Star Destroyer".  

As for a gameplay related post.  Lol...you forget that I made this suggestion months ago.   It fills the Niche of a Titan and fleet support.  

 

 

 

CAS Type-I Assault Carrier

Description: The Prophet Hierarchs rarely left the safety of High Charity, however when they did they utilized one of their personalized CAS-class Assault Carriers.  These vessels differ little in appearance from their slightly smaller cousin, but have far greater shields and numerous energy projectors.

 

Abilities: 

Ability1: Crippling Blow

Description: Vessel fires all of its energy projectors disabling any ship hit by it and increasing weapon cooldowns.

Ability2: Overpowered Shot

Description: All other weapon systems have increased cooldown in exchange for a 5 second cooldown on Energy Projectors (when combined with Crippling blow can be really OP. 

Ability3: Shield Diversion

Description: All weapon systems are shut down, engines are slowed down and diverted to shields.

Ability4: Slipspace Grid access

Description: The Hierarch has Level-0 access to the slipspace grid allowing him to call in reinforcements from distant worlds across the Empire.  

Ability5: Sermon

Description: The Hierarch (The Arbiter in the Sangheili research option) delivers a sermon across the battlenet increasing morale and boosting combat effectiveness across the gravity well and decreasing combat effectiveness of enemy vessels.

Ability6: Forerunner alloy

Description: Vessel has been reinforced with a forerunner alloy boosting shield effectiveness and repair rates.

 

 

Tell me what you all think.

 

 

As evidenced by the sharing of authority between Prophets and Elites for over three thousand years. The most recent Hierarchy's distrust was a very recent event. There's no historical precedent for Prophets skimming off the top.

 

 

Why did you even bother typing this?

 

 

Good to know we have you here to decide that for us.

 

 

How? What does it do? Why is it better?

It is not recent.  I have a bit more experience with the lore than you so I'll enlighten you.  The distrust between the Sangheili and the San'Shyuum dates back to the founding of the Covenant, which is covered in Halo: Broken Circle.  That is simply built upon further evidence such as in this passage from Halo: Contact Harvest

"Fortitude caught himself. Was he seriously considering the Vice Minister’s proposal? Had he

gone mad?

“Before we do anything,” he cautioned, his tongue moving of its own accord, “we must be sure

the Luminations are valid.”

“I have a warship standing by, awaiting your approval to—”

Fortitude pulled back as if stung. “You have brought the Sangheili into this?!” His head began to

throb, beating with panicked pain. If the Sangheili took possession of the reliquary, who knew how

that might upset the status quo! Again his finger shot toward his throne’s alarm."

 

 

If you note Fortitude (later the Prophet of Truth) is gravely concerned with the Sangheili taking the possession of any artifacts without the San'Shyuum having access first.  Why?  Because many among the San'Shyuum distrust the Sangheili.  Furthermore, the Hierarchs as deduced by Guilty Spark and 'Refumee noted that every time a  powerful Sangheili leader emerged (regardless of their dedication to the Journey i.e. Vadumee, Wattinree) was always conveniently removed from the political arena, normally by way of naming them Arbiter and having them die on the field of battle.  

 

 

You misread my post.  My "Actually...no" was in reference to this not being the same as including the plot device

 

Its better because it is specifically designed as the flagship of Covenant Fleets...which is what a Titan is supposed to be.  It is the antithesis of Infinity.  The Super-Destroyer is not.  

[Lavo]

It is the antithesis of Infinity.   

I must correct you on this point; the Cov titan has never meant to be something that stands on even ground with Infinity..

[Lord Stark]

I must correct you on this point; the Cov titan has never meant to be something that stands on even ground with Infinity..

That's not what I really meant by antithesis.  I meant that its role and function would be similar.  But all Titans are not equal.  This was true even in the original game. 

[Lavo]

I meant that its role and function would be similar.  

Again, that was never meant to be the case for the two titans. 

[SiRD31M0S]

I have a bit more experience with the lore than you so I'll enlighten you.

By your mastery of the unfalsifiable bullshit I am undone! Oh, teach me your ways great master!

 

It's good to know we have someone here that knows me better than I do. For a moment I was afraid we were actually making progress.

 

founding of the Covenant

You mean when they'd just got done killing millions of each other, when rebellion and heresy were extremely common? This says nothing about the intervening 3,000 years between then and modern-era Halo.

 

Halo: Contact Harvest

You mean the EXTREMELY recent events wherein Fortitude et al were busy uncovering the utter falsehood of their faith? The falsehoods that would have, at best, resulted in their execution if the Elites, the intelligent strong guys, learned what they were doing? And all of this, during a plot to usurp power for themselves? This isn't about trust between the races. Fortitude planned to use the street cred of finding the "artifacts" discovered on Harvest as a tool to leverage himself into the seat of a Hierarch. Indeed, he actively worked to see that Forerunner technology was evenly distributed among the member races to prevent another Age of Conflict. You have presented NO evidence of such grand distrust.

 

Vadumee

'Vadumee was the ship master missing the mandibles on the left side of his face. You mean 'Vadamee.

 

Your Arbiter example still only stretches back 400 years. Not a particularly long-winded affair for the millennia-spanning empire.

 

And then I found this:

He explains how the Arbiter Thel 'Vadamee discovered flaws in the Covenant's belief system during his mission to Installation 05, revealing that the Great Journey was a lie. The Minister reveals that the San'Shyuum were, in fact, fully aware of this deception: the Great Journey was a fabrication from the start, and while the Covenant's client races may have benefited from the religion's teachings, the San'Shyuum always knew that their followers would never achieve godhood.

I am, thereby, forced to concede the point. It was about power from the beginning. Too bad you didn't have the wherewithal to properly argue it. There's also still no proof of the Prophets hoarding tech for themselves. Debate team my ass.

[SternuS]

Wow, so much maturity displayed on here.

 

You're all debating on suppositions. There's no confirmed statement that any of the SMAC stations were actually hitting Regret's carriers before Athens and Malta got destroyed. All we know, from the Halo 2 cinematics, is that the fleet was beyond the SMAC range when the battle started, and they started to send boarding parties.

For all we know, Cairo and its siblings could've been firing at a supposed direction of the fleet to keep them off the orbit, while the Home Fleet was kept back to defend the grid.

 

Halo games contradict themselves seldomly, but it can happen. Why hadn't the Covenant gave Solemn Penance's shields to every other ship? Who knows. Maybe they didn't trust the Elites. Maybe they just didn't think they would need to do so. We don't make expensive things if there's no need for them to be done. The Covenant was amassing a gigantic invasion force at the Unyielding Hierophant, who knows what technology bore the ships that got destroyed there.

 

IIRC, Regret didn't know he was jumping toward the Human homeworld, that's why his fleet was so meagre.

 

Facts are that a new model for the Covenant titan is almost finished. I would suggest you to stop here before this escalates.

I know how hard it can be to accept a ship design that you hate. I had to accept that one of my most beloved ships was lazily scaled down, without any explanation, in a game that killed an enitre serie, by a company that destroyed all I loved about Halo, and didn't even bother respond me when I needed their help.

[Solemn Penance]

Yo. This idea is the most unique one yet and you guys are getting so caught up with the technicalities.  It's either this or some lazily designed ship from some comic that can be summed up as a "powerful ship with lots of guns" and the covenant already has lots of those. Deal with it, one shaky ship lore-wise isn't the end of the world. If you guys have a better idea lay it out, don't just trash this ship 

[Riftis]

I'm hoping Spartan Games will release a Battle of Earth supplement, for one of the most important battles of the war there's not a lot of detail on it. Why did the home fleet struggle so much against Regret's original fleet and how did it fare against the second wave of Covenant ships (aside from the obvious answer of 'badly')? What were the other orbital defense platforms doing during the battle? Did Earth receive reinforcements from the bypassed inner colonies? So many questions!

 

I really enjoyed the alternative viewpoints we get of the battle in the beginning of ODST and The Cole Protocol.

 

 

Surprised everyone's getting so worked up about Regret's ship, I think it's a really cool idea! It's not so unbelievable that a Prophet might have an overpowered command ship fitting their ego, due to the lack of serious threats to the Covenant immediately preceding the human-covenant war, I figure Regret may have even "inherited" the ship from his predecessor. The Covenant are well known for imitating rather than innovating, such a ship could feasibly have had access to technology that was rare, or perhaps even unique.

 

All conjecture though, so this discussion is sort of redundant.

[Crisiss]

Wow, so much maturity displayed on here.

 

You're all debating on suppositions. There's no confirmed statement that any of the SMAC stations were actually hitting Regret's carriers before Athens and Malta got destroyed. All we know, from the Halo 2 cinematics, is that the fleet was beyond the SMAC range when the battle started, and they started to send boarding parties.

For all we know, Cairo and its siblings could've been firing at a supposed direction of the fleet to keep them off the orbit, while the Home Fleet was kept back to defend the grid.

 

Halo games contradict themselves seldomly, but it can happen. Why hadn't the Covenant gave Solemn Penance's shields to every other ship? Who knows. Maybe they didn't trust the Elites. Maybe they just didn't think they would need to do so. We don't make expensive things if there's no need for them to be done. The Covenant was amassing a gigantic invasion force at the Unyielding Hierophant, who knows what technology bore the ships that got destroyed there.

 

IIRC, Regret didn't know he was jumping toward the Human homeworld, that's why his fleet was so meagre.

 

Facts are that a new model for the Covenant titan is almost finished. I would suggest you to stop here before this escalates.

I know how hard it can be to accept a ship design that you hate. I had to accept that one of my most beloved ships was lazily scaled down, without any explanation, in a game that killed an enitre serie, by a company that destroyed all I loved about Halo, and didn't even bother respond me when I needed their help.

The fact that the model is almost finished doesn't mean anything really. The Sahara Prowler has had a finished model for close to a year now. No news on it. The Infinity has had a model done for a very long time also. The old CAR had a unique model, that doesn't mean we can't trash it. I'm not worried about any "escalations." The ship design isn't even the real issue here. It is that this fits no criteria for what the devs are looking for (or previously anyhow) in the titan. My assumption is that this was taken so that fans (mainly moddb retards) would stop bitching about the Covenant titan being so much smaller and frailer than the UNSC one. "WHY IS THE BATTLESHIP SO SMALL IT SHOULD BE BIGGER THAN THE UNSC TITAN GIB plot device IT IS SO WEAK AND NOT SCARY" having no idea what they are talking about. The Battleship filled a niche that was untouched and did it fairly well (needs balance reworking is all). This new City CAS has no niche left to fill. It will simply be a bigger and badder version of the CAS.

Yo. This idea is the most unique one yet and you guys are getting so caught up with the technicalities.  It's either this or some lazily designed ship from some comic that can be summed up as a "powerful ship with lots of guns" and the covenant already has lots of those. Deal with it, one shaky ship lore-wise isn't the end of the world. If you guys have a better idea lay it out, don't just trash this ship 

Again, the lore isn't the issue with me. I could care less if it ever existed at all. It's the fact that it doesn't do anything any other ship doesn't already. You realize this iteration of the Covenant titan is literally what you just described? It is a "powerful ship with lots of guns" by Uni's definition. 

 

I'm hoping Spartan Games will release a Battle of Earth supplement, for one of the most important battles of the war there's not a lot of detail on it. Why did the home fleet struggle so much against Regret's original fleet and how did it fare against the second wave of Covenant ships (aside from the obvious answer of 'badly')? What were the other orbital defense platforms doing during the battle? Did Earth receive reinforcements from the bypassed inner colonies? So many questions!

 

I really enjoyed the alternative viewpoints we get of the battle in the beginning of ODST and The Cole Protocol.

 

Surprised everyone's getting so worked up about Regret's ship, I think it's a really cool idea! It's not so unbelievable that a Prophet might have an overpowered command ship fitting their ego, due to the lack of serious threats to the Covenant immediately preceding the human-covenant war, I figure Regret may have even "inherited" the ship from his predecessor. The Covenant are well known for imitating rather than innovating, such a ship could feasibly have had access to technology that was rare, or perhaps even unique.

 

All conjecture though, so this discussion is sort of redundant.

Not sure what the first part has to do with anything but it's not about the believability as it is the use for it. Read above for points on that.

 

The fact that everything in this thread is conjecture is due to the Battle of Earth (like you said) barely being explained at all. Nobody really knows if the ship took hits or not or if this thing did that or what have you.

 

I don't like the idea for the titan due to the fact it has no gameplay use besides "big ship that kills and takes a lot of stuff". The design isn't so much of an issue for me but it is annoying that the incredibly lazy plot device mishap is being more or less repeated here.

[SternuS]

The fact that the model is almost finished doesn't mean anything really. The Sahara Prowler has had a finished model for close to a year now. No news on it. The Infinity has had a model done for a very long time also. The old CAR had a unique model, that doesn't mean we can't trash it. I'm not worried about any "escalations." The ship design isn't even the real issue here. It is that this fits no criteria for what the devs are looking for (or previously anyhow) in the titan. My assumption is that this was taken so that fans (mainly moddb retards) would stop bitching about the Covenant titan being so much smaller and frailer than the UNSC one. "WHY IS THE BATTLESHIP SO SMALL IT SHOULD BE BIGGER THAN THE UNSC TITAN GIB plot device IT IS SO WEAK AND NOT SCARY" having no idea what they are talking about. The Battleship filled a niche that was untouched and did it fairly well (needs balance reworking is all). This new City CAS has no niche left to fill. It will simply be a bigger and badder version of the CAS.

 

I get your point. Although I don't think they mods did that change for that, it is a plausible reason. I really hope not though.

[Demosthenes]

I would rather have this ship as a titan than the battleship. Placeholder or not, the battleship was ugly and this thing is pretty.

As for niche filling, the Covenant titan has always been on the backburner compared to the Infinity. Now it can be a ship you can at least stand the sight of. The differences between this and the standard CAS can lie in the ship's abilities.

We know that Truth and Regret's carriers both deployed scarabs (potentially awesome particle effect!). We know that they (somehow?) got past the orbital defense grid more or less unscathed. We know they launch dozens of boarding craft that specialize in neutralizing orbital platforms. These craft also carry antimatter bombs that, if it gets past the shields, are capable of annihilating a CAS. We know that their slipspace jumps set off an enormous EMP blast that destroyed a huge city. Please don't nitpick my ideas here and recognize my point that there is room in the lore and the gameplay for this being a unique and useful ship.

Edit: I also think it's a bad idea to make it much bigger than the standard CAS for the reasons others have mentioned.

[Solemn Penance]

What I would like this ship to have is maybe like some sort of "electronic cloak" thing that prevents stuff from targeting it but weakens it in some other way or something. Or maybe make it really fast so it's set apart from other covie ships. I agree just overpowering the shields and putting on more plasma beam things would be really boring 

 

 We know that their slipspace jumps set off an enormous EMP blast that destroyed a huge city. 
 

Not to say that isn't cool but I think that's the standard slip-space effect (at least for big ships)

[The]

Please don't make a extremely noticeable size difference, or it will be too similar to the "Reach Plot Device".

[Jaeger]

We know that their slipspace jumps set off an enormous EMP blast that destroyed a huge city. 

I know you said not to nit pick but an EMP is literally of no tactical advantage for the Covenant against the UNSC considering all UNSC tech is EMP hardend after hundreds of years of worrying about nuclear EMPs.

[SternuS]

We know that their slipspace jumps set off an enormous EMP blast that destroyed a huge city.

That's not something that a slipspace jump can do (either by lore or by sins hardcoding), but rather the consequence of fracturing the structure of space in an atmosphere-based environment. Besides, it would be rather counter-productive when jumping together with allied vessel.

 

"Prepare to jump. Coordinates are set. We are ready to procede-

WHAT THE FUCK? where does this EMP blast come from-??

Ah, SHIT!, it's the Solemn Penance. She jumped before us, AGAIN! Goddammit, it'll take hours to be operative again. Regret did this on purpose, I bet it. He's such an asshole!"