67 replies to this topic

[Sev]

This thread is making me cringe...

[Demosthenes]

Please

[Crisiss]

This thread is making me cringe...

What about it, exactly?

[Lord Stark]

You mean when they'd just got done killing millions of each other, when rebellion and heresy were extremely common? This says nothing about the intervening 3,000 years between then and modern-era Halo.

*3,400 years.
*Rebellion and heresy were not extremely common. Only Ussa 'Xellus and a very small sect were in open rebellion about the formation of the Covenant. The rest were silently distrustful. The fact that even in 2552, the sight of a San'Shyuum and a Sangheili

You mean the EXTREMELY recent events wherein Fortitude et al were busy uncovering the utter falsehood of their faith? The falsehoods that would have, at best, resulted in their execution if the Elites, the intelligent strong guys, learned what they were doing? And all of this, during a plot to usurp power for themselves? This isn't about trust between the races. Fortitude planned to use the street cred of finding the "artifacts" discovered on Harvest as a tool to leverage himself into the seat of a Hierarch. Indeed, he actively worked to see that Forerunner technology was evenly distributed among the member races to prevent another Age of Conflict. You have presented NO evidence of such grand distrust.

Even at the start of the Covenant Mken 'Scre'ah'ben was "peppered by doubts about the Great Journey and the purpose of the Halo array" He states "Did the description of the effect not sound like weapons?". And quite frankly if someone relatively low on the San'Shyuum food chain like 'Scre'ah'ben had his doubts, I would imagine that the higher ups not only had their suspicions, but some likely didn't even believe in the Journey.

 

Your Arbiter example still only stretches back 400 years. Not a particularly long-winded affair for the millennia-spanning empire.

400 years ago isn't recent though. So concession accepted there.

And then I found this:
I am, thereby, forced to concede the point. It was about power from the beginning. Too bad you didn't have the wherewithal to properly argue it. There's also still no proof of the Prophets hoarding tech for themselves. Debate team my ass.

Concession accepted. There's plenty of evidence for distrust. And as for evidence of them hoarding technology, one simply needs to look at the fact that a Hierarch's energy shields are far more powerful than that of a Sangheili, Jiralhanae, or any foot soldier for that matter. Why is it so mind blowing that their warships would also be better shielded. Additionally Regret had a personal teleporter on his throne, no Sangheili foot soldier has access to that sort of technology either. Its pretty clear even if that the technology the Hierarchs personally used was far more powerful than those used by even the most powerful Sangheili commander.

[SiRD31M0S]

I was under the impression we were speaking generally about the races, not specifically about Hierarchs. If you just mean Hierarchs, then I'll absolutely agree with you. They're the big boys, they get the big toys. Nothing strange about that. Wouldn't necessarily call that a convention of distrust, though. Plenty of precedent, just not this, or anything else you've listed. Seems more like a prioritization than anything else. I mean, they are the leaders of the entire hegemony. One does not offer a king a rusty dagger as his weapon.

 

 

Even at the start of the Covenant Mken 'Scre'ah'ben was "peppered by doubts about the Great Journey and the purpose of the Halo array" He states "Did the description of the effect not sound like weapons?". And quite frankly if someone relatively low on the San'Shyuum food chain like 'Scre'ah'ben had his doubts, I would imagine that the higher ups not only had their suspicions, but some likely didn't even believe in the Journey.

You used this to reply to something it didn't even address, and now I'm all confused.

 

 

And quite frankly if someone relatively low on the San'Shyuum food chain like 'Scre'ah'ben had his doubts, I would imagine that the higher ups not only had their suspicions, but some likely didn't even believe in the Journey.

The thing I quoted in my concession seems to allude to this as well, quite prominently in fact. Seems to me the actual truth behind the Journey is something of a secret amongst the higher-ups. Even Truth, Regret and Mercy didn't know before being told by Mendicant Bias, and they were all at least semi-important figures pre-Ascension.

 

 

The rest were silently distrustful. The fact that even in 2552, the sight of a San'Shyuum and a Sangheili

I think you accidentally a few words there.

 

 

*3,400 years.

3404* (or 3405 if we mean the "official" end of the war, or 3408 if we mean completely-up-to-date modern). I wasn't trying to be so utterly precise. It was an approximation used as short-hand. There was really no reason for that.

 

Why are we talking about lore in a titan thread again?

Spoiler

[Lord Stark]

I was under the impression we were speaking generally about the races, not specifically about Hierarchs. If you just mean Hierarchs, then I'll absolutely agree with you. They're the big boys, they get the big toys. Nothing strange about that. Wouldn't necessarily call that a convention of distrust, though. Plenty of precedent, just not this, or anything else you've listed. Seems more like a prioritization than anything else. I mean, they are the leaders of the entire hegemony. One does not offer a king a rusty dagger as his weapon.

Oh no, I meant the Hierarchs, that's really my fault for not specifying.
 

You used this to reply to something it didn't even address, and now I'm all confused.
 
The thing I quoted in my concession seems to allude to this as well, quite prominently in fact. Seems to me the actual truth behind the Journey is something of a secret amongst the higher-ups. Even Truth, Regret and Mercy didn't know before being told by Mendicant Bias, and they were all at least semi-important figures pre-Ascension.

Well Truth and Mercy served on the High Council, it is interesting that they weren't privy to this given that the Minister of Discovery, another High Councilor was. Then again it's quite possible that like Zo Resken only a few San'Shyuum knew through the private journals of their ancestors who served as Hierarchs/ the inner circle of the Covenant.
 

I think you accidentally a few words there.

Eh its pretty irrelevant but basically the sight of an Elite and a Prophet was a rare sight unless the former was serving as a bodyguard of the latter. That kinda suggests to me there wasn't that much meeting of minds between the two races. The lack of even so much as companionship between the two groups kind of makes it seems like rather than one integrated Covenant culture they were two very separate cultures.
 

3404* (or 3405 if we mean the "official" end of the war, or 3408 if we mean completely-up-to-date modern). I wasn't trying to be so utterly precise. It was an approximation used as short-hand. There was really no reason for that.
 
Why are we talking about lore in a titan thread again? [Spoiler]

No, I was agreeing with you on that point.
I honestly think we're just agreeing aggressively at this point, honestly. As for why, well this Titan is very lore centric.

[Lord Stark]

Again, that was never meant to be the case for the two titans. 

Whether it is or not, the CAS and the Infinity are both classified by the catalogue as "destroyers" in the Forerunner registry.  So they are very similar in their role and function in fleets at least rudimentarily. 

[SiRD31M0S]

No, I was agreeing with you on that point.

I'm really not sure how, but I'll take it. Asterisks usually denote a correction rather than supportive building upon information.