61 replies to this topic

[Emberblaque]

I know it is a different kind of AS but what I was getting at is why they made a different version? CE's AS was kickass, near god like, no need for a different version. I was trying to rationalize why, which is the point of this thread, Why?

 

I'd say it's because the Halo: CE AR was OP. Defender says there's recoil like other games but at least for the first game, I don't remember anything of that nature. If it was there it was negligible. The AR had the range and damage of a rifle, but the magazine size and firing rate of a submachine gun. I'd say that the Reach and Halo 3 ARs are really only the same as the Halo: CE AR aesthetically. In the newer games, the ARs spread increases over time to encourage less rapid fire, and the clip is smaller so you can't massacre an entire squad of grunts and an elite without at least emptying your clip.

[CanadaMan7]

Recoil was barely a factor until Halo Reach, which I was mildly i displeased about. It's now much harder to pull off trick/skill shots like the kind you could achieve in Halo 3.

[KhevaKins]

 

 

I'd say it's because the Halo: CE AR was OP. Defender says there's recoil like other games but at least for the first game, I don't remember anything of that nature. If it was there it was negligible. The AR had the range and damage of a rifle, but the magazine size and firing rate of a submachine gun. I'd say that the Reach and Halo 3 ARs are really only the same as the Halo: CE AR aesthetically. In the newer games, the ARs spread increases over time to encourage less rapid fire, and the clip is smaller so you can't massacre an entire squad of grunts and an elite without at least emptying your clip.

 

I know why it was changed game-play wise. The CE AS was overpowered, which I thought I made clear in my first post on the subject.
I am trying to create a theory lore/story wise why they would change it.

[Emberblaque]

I know why it was changed game-play wise. The CE AS was overpowered, which I thought I made clear in my first post on the subject.
I am trying to create a theory lore/story wise why they would change it.

Ah. That did confuse me a bit.

 

This may be my own imagination or a memory of something I read, but consider the fact that the Autumn was supposed to embark on a very special mission just before they had to flee from Reach. It stands to reason that an experimental ship transporting an experimental supersoldier would have experimental weapons on board. They do say that the weapons in the different games are different models, but maybe the model in Halo: CE wasn't nearly as widespread, or produced only for that mission. Even explains the absurd OP-ness. How's that?

[KhevaKins]

Ah. That did confuse me a bit.

 

This may be my own imagination or a memory of something I read, but consider the fact that the Autumn was supposed to embark on a very special mission just before they had to flee from Reach. It stands to reason that an experimental ship transporting an experimental supersoldier would have experimental weapons on board. They do say that the weapons in the different games are different models, but maybe the model in Halo: CE wasn't nearly as widespread, or produced only for that mission. Even explains the absurd OP-ness. How's that?

That sounds legit. But why wouldn't they use the CE AS more widespread? It kicks the pants of every other AS model.
I think we need a new question.

[MrChipps]

Well I think it's logical lore-wise to follow the alphabetical designation of the rifles in the MA5-series(http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/MA5_Series) and place the MA5B as a forerunner to the MA5C "the successor of the MA5B Individual Combat Weapon System." (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/MA5C_Individual_Combat_Weapon_System). BUT wikis are notoriuosly dangerous to use as evidence for ones argument and as such this sould be marked down as slightly more substantiated speculation.

[KhevaKins]

Well I think it's logical lore-wise to follow the alphabetical designation of the rifles in the MA5-series(http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/MA5_Series) and place the MA5B as a forerunner to the MA5C "the successor of the MA5B Individual Combat Weapon System." (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/MA5C_Individual_Combat_Weapon_System). BUT wikis are notoriuosly dangerous to use as evidence for ones argument and as such this sould be marked down as slightly more substantiated speculation.

But what I am getting at is the CE Edition AS is the best permutation of the gun. I am trying to create a theory on why the wouldn't use it and settled on cost.

[Emberblaque]

That sounds legit. But why wouldn't they use the CE AS more widespread? It kicks the pants of every other AS model.
I think we need a new question.

Thanks to that link, just found out the MA5B is over 30 years old at the time of Halo: CE. Throws my experimental explanation out the window. Could always chalk it up to statistical bias. You only visit two UNSC planets in the games, and play as four different characters. That is to say, it's more widespread than you think but there wasn't a large enough sample size to get an accurate distribution. You just happened to get samples that didn't include the MA5B.

 

Sampling bias is actually pretty plausible considering you always play as either an alien or a member of a special forces unit. Maybe you don't get the mass produced weapons, you get the cooler, less common ones.

[Zero]

Gameplay wise, Bungie needed an automatic weapon that was stronger than the SMG and was good at short to medium range while being comparable to the BR at said ranges. Lore wise, I would guess why the BR in H2 and the BR in H3 is different and that being related to a different generation of weapons produced before the end of the war and at the end of the war. The MA5B was seen widespread but many of the drawbacks were recoil among common marines where the MA5C was comparable in damage but held half the rounds and with reduced recoil. Not everyone is a Spartan in Halo, you gotta think about those leathernecks on the front lines struggling to keep their rifle aimed down range.

 

Gameplay damage thrown out the window and speaking lore specifically, both rifles use the 7.62x51mm NATO round which would mean both rifles equal in damage supposedly. The difference being one has a 60 round clip and would equal more recoil if not burst fired while the other has 32 rounds and has less recoil if fired constantly if only because the time for the muzzle to climb after 32 rounds is less than that for 60 rounds. Its really hard to compare statistics without proper RoF and muzzle velocities, but the MA5C has a decreased rate of fire and better accuracy down range than the MA5B and is overall easier to handle while dealing the same amount of damage. In Halo 3, however, the MA5C supposedly does more damage per bullet than the MA5B in Halo CE.

[m468]

I'm going to assume it is a typo but its 7.62 x 51mm not 7.62 x 11mm. Just for clarification as their is no such thing as 7.62 x 11mm, the bullet would have almost no range or killing power.

[Zero]

I'm going to assume it is a typo but its 7.62 x 51mm not 7.62 x 11mm. Just for clarification as their is no such thing as 7.62 x 11mm, the bullet would have almost no range or killing power.

Yes it is a typo, excuse me.

[CthulhuPanda36]

Here's a doosy, why did the Forward Unto Dawn get upgraded while in deep space. I know 343i wanted a new look but would it have been so hard to create one more ship model? (actually half a model)

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

Here's a doosy, why did the Forward Unto Dawn get upgraded while in deep space. I know 343i wanted a new look but would it have been so hard to create one more ship model? (actually half a model)

Because 343i is lazy.

[KhevaKins]

Here's a doosy, why did the Forward Unto Dawn get upgraded while in deep space. I know 343i wanted a new look but would it have been so hard to create one more ship model? (actually half a model)

 

 

Because 343i is lazy.

^^Right there. They didn't want to design a HD Old Charon and a HD New Charon so they just went with the new one and the "screw you if you don't like it," approach.

Also why the plot device is so shizen in Reach, laziness.

[sloosecannon]

^^Right there. They didn't want to design a HD Old Charon and a HD New Charon so they just went with the new one and the "screw you if you don't like it," approach.
Also why the CSO is so shizen in Reach, laziness.

Oh the CSO isn't "schizen" in reach, it's an excellent model and would be absolutely great were it not a COMPLETE COPY-RESIZE OF A PREVIOUS MODEL...

[Bornstellaris]

The Super Carrier model isn't at all bad, the underside is detailed differently and it's absolutely plausible to have a vessel that would share SOME design aspects of the Assault Carrier. It just needed to differentiate way more in its design.

[Zero]

If one were to compare the Supercarrier with the Halo 3 Assault Carrier, they are the same texture just with Reach post-processing applied.

 

Reach Supercarrier

Spoiler

http://www.halopedia...r_underside.jpg

 

Halo 3 Assault Carrier

Spoiler

http://www.halopedia...s/b/b2/Ark3.jpg

http://www.halopedia...AC_Cargobay.jpg

 

Reach Assault Carrier

Spoiler

http://www.halopedia...rcarrier_02.png

[KhevaKins]

Oh the plot device isn't "schizen" in reach, it's an excellent model and would be absolutely great were it not a COMPLETE COPY-RESIZE OF A PREVIOUS MODEL...

The aforementioned shizen is in regards to the model being copied and not the actual model quality. I agree it looks good but they were lazy in that they didn't want to design a new model.

[Emberblaque]

They should have just used a fucking Assault Carrier again, good enough for the previous two games. Like a 5km long ship isn't scary enough.

[D4RKST0RM99]

From the point of view of the covenant perhaps there is great difficulty in designing new ships since they are technologically more imitative than innovative as they have been using these same designs for centuries. Think of it in terms of EA games given one of two options to develop and release their next game, they either stick to an established title series and only make superficial changes over the predecessor but still largely the same game therefore guaranteeing a success or try the second option of starting from scratch and building a new idea that will take months if not years to develop and with many unforeseen difficulties with no guarantee of success. You can imagine that designing a city sized starship far more powerful than its predecessors from scratch would be and nearly impossible feat. This is one advantage the UNSC has shown throughout the Halo story not just to improve upon alien tech but to learn from it and make it of their own.

Even from before Halo reach we have seen how the Covenant re-use ship designs considering the vast selection of sizes their cruisers are seen in from the smaller CRS light cruisers to the larger CCS class Battle cruisers.

Who knows, perhaps they’re using the largest ever 3D printer and they could only steal a handful of our SOTP ship models, in 500 years let’s see what they do with it.