131 replies to this topic

[Dianno5741]

Jbug, you need to open both your entrenchment, screenshot something, then rebellion and screenshot that. The difference is shader quality. Meaning the engine was updated with better graphics. Much like Empire Total War to Napoleon Total War, same idea, only a few new concepts but a HUGE graphics change due to shaders and the ability for the software to more effectively communicate with your hardware and its architecture.

 

In short, Its way better.

[Zero]

IMO Rebellion is a cheap graphical update. Even it struggles to keep up with 100 vanilla ships on screen, and that's not an improvement from the original Sins. What Sins really lacks is LOD scaling, which is something that is needed for an RTS, especially one like this. Without LOD scaling, the same level of detail is in a ship that's not even visible zoomed out and that's where most of the lag comes from, if not from all the "HD" textures and particles on screen at once because clearly more ships = better experience?

[Lavo]

I'm just intruiged... doesn't rebellion have custom UI for the races? Have you imported that into TEC (as that is the skin for TEC I think) or am I missing something?

 

I didn't even consider UI when I did the conversion. All I did was simply get the code to work.

[Defender0]

IMO Rebellion is a cheap graphical update. Even it struggles to keep up with 100 vanilla ships on screen, and that's not an improvement from the original Sins. What Sins really lacks is LOD scaling, which is something that is needed for an RTS, especially one like this. Without LOD scaling, the same level of detail is in a ship that's not even visible zoomed out and that's where most of the lag comes from, if not from all the "HD" textures and particles on screen at once because clearly more ships = better experience?

Well, you can tell lavo that, according to you, he wasted around 8-10 hours of his time. Or, you can be thankful of the work he did for us, and without anything in return.

[Lavo]

Even it struggles to keep up with 100 vanilla ships on screen, and that's not an improvement from the original Sins.

That's a pretty unfair thing to hold against Rebellion as Rebellion didn't re-write the engine as a 64-bit exe, which is what you need to have that work right. The problem with lag isn't ship detail or such bullshit, it's having to track thousands of units at once. Besides this, Rebellion, and even Diplomacy, have a ton of fixes and features that Entrenchment simply does not have. Honestly having more buff and research modifiers is a pretty big deal, there's more under the hood here than you think. I do know, as I've ported over a total conversion to Rebellion from Entrenchment once before this.

[Zero]

The problem with lag isn't ship detail or such bullshit, it's having to track thousands of units at once.

FYI, each ship's model is parsed per vertex through the script to display correctly in-game. Less vertices = less load time. So without a LOD scaling factor, you're loading more verts on screen when the game is "having to track thousands of units at once." So yes, it does have to deal with ship detail. That's what the .MESH file is for, loading and containing every vertices for one particular ship and rendering them in real time on the map.

 

 

 

Well, you can tell lavo that, according to you, he wasted around 8-10 hours of his time. Or, you can be thankful of the work he did for us, and without anything in return.

My opinion on Rebellion has nothing to do with what Lavo has done, it's merely discontent with how Rebellion operates for a game of its stature. Please learn to read. Almost all modern day games have some form of LOD scaling, I don't know why Rebellion and Sins don't.

[Defender0]

My opinion on Rebellion has nothing to do with what Lavo has done, it's merely discontent with how Rebellion operates for a game of its stature. Please learn to read. Almost all modern day games have some form of LOD scaling, I don't know why Rebellion and Sins don't.

And please learn to realize that rebellion is here. There is literally nothing you can do about it, its being tested and commits are being made.

[Dhoulmegus]

FYI, each ship's model is parsed per vertex through the script to display correctly in-game. Less vertices = less load time. So without a LOD scaling factor, you're loading more verts on screen when the game is "having to track thousands of units at once." So yes, it does have to deal with ship detail. That's what the .MESH file is for, loading and containing every vertices for one particular ship and rendering them in real time on the map.

Too bad we don't have any new Covenant textures to see this happening. Without out them, our poor models are just sitting in storage. *COUGH!*

[Zero]

And please learn to realize that rebellion is here. There is literally nothing you can do about it, its being tested and commits are being made.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make as clearly the mod was going to Rebellion anyways. It's a fun game but is horrifically not on par with current rendering standards of other similar games. I am allowed to voice my discontent, I'm sorry I offended you with making a valid point that has nothing to do with the mod being ported over, which I think Lavo is doing a perfectly fine job at. Your posts are obviously hostile and serve no purpose other than to call me out on an otherwise harmless opinion based on the game and not the mod.

 

Too bad we don't have any new Covenant textures to see this happening. Without out them, our poor models are just sitting in storage. *COUGH!*

I'm sorry I'm not working fast enough for you, maybe you'd like to try your hand at texturing?

[Defender0]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make as clearly the mod was going to Rebellion anyways. It's a fun game but is horrifically not on par with current rendering standards of other similar games. I am allowed to voice my discontent, I'm sorry I offended you with making a valid point that has nothing to do with the mod being ported over, which I think Lavo is doing a perfectly fine job at. Your posts are obviously hostile and serve no purpose other than to call me out on an otherwise harmless opinion based on the game and not the mod.

 

youve proven to be very hostile to me, why should i treat you nicely?

[Dhoulmegus]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make as clearly the mod was going to Rebellion anyways. It's a fun game but is horrifically not on par with current rendering standards of other similar games. I am allowed to voice my discontent, I'm sorry I offended you with making a valid point that has nothing to do with the mod being ported over, which I think Lavo is doing a perfectly fine job at. Your posts are obviously hostile and serve no purpose other than to call me out on an otherwise harmless opinion based on the game and not the mod.

 

I'm sorry I'm not working fast enough for you, maybe you'd like to try your hand at texturing?

It's nice to hear that you are working!

[Zero]

youve proven to be very hostile to me, why should i treat you nicely?

I have been very civil in this topic, if you have a problem with me you should address me via PM like a responsible person rather than trying to make a public display.

 

 

It's nice to hear that you are working!

I also have another mod to work on as well, one that I manage and run by myself and will always take precedent over SotP. I also have other things to worry about like a job that I work 5 days a week and a girl I see almost every day. My work ethic and speed also relies on my motivation to texture and recently I haven't been very motivated because the quality of work that's come down the pipeline hasn't been very good despite giving back criticism. But this isn't the place for this and clearly isn't a topic you should be ganging up on me in.

[Defender0]

I have been very civil in this topic, if you have a problem with me you should address me via PM like a responsible person rather than trying to make a public display.

public display... like your last status update?

[Zero]

public display... like your last status update?

It was a joke; you don't like me, why would you miss me? Clearly this is going off topic and should be stopped. Again, if you want to tell me something about my attitude towards you or something in general, then PM me other than dragging this topic down with the petty replies.

[Dhoulmegus]

I also have another mod to work on as well, one that I manage and run by myself and will always take precedent over SotP. I also have other things to worry about like a job that I work 5 days a week and a girl I see almost every day. My work ethic and speed also relies on my motivation to texture and recently I haven't been very motivated because the quality of work that's come down the pipeline hasn't been very good despite giving back criticism. But this isn't the place for this and clearly isn't a topic you should be ganging up on me in.

Do what you need to in the order you need to do them in. I think everyone is just kinda rushed over this Rebellion thing.

[Lavo]

FYI, each ship's model is parsed per vertex through the script to display correctly in-game. Less vertices = less load time. So without a LOD scaling factor, you're loading more verts on screen when the game is "having to track thousands of units at once." So yes, it does have to deal with ship detail. That's what the .MESH file is for, loading and containing every vertices for one particular ship and rendering them in real time on the map.

 

 

That's some interesting info. Though I must note that the model's actual size doesn't have too large an effect; the biggest issue is the game having to do path finding for every single unit on the map. This is why cargo ships and fighters are the single largest contributors to late game lag; even when replaced with a black box as a model they bog down the game due to their numbers. While LOD would very well be an improvement, it unfortunately would not address the core problem.

[Zero]

That's some interesting info. Though I must note that the model's actual size doesn't have too large an effect; the biggest issue is the game having to do path finding for every single unit on the map. This is why cargo ships and fighters are the single largest contributors to late game lag; even when replaced with a black box as a model they bog down the game due to their numbers. While LOD would very well be an improvement, it unfortunately would not address the core problem.

Yes I agree completely. What would make more sense is to have less cargo ships with more armor and cargo and less fighters with more power and hull resistance. But like I stated above more ships = better experience I guess.

[Normon]

Christ, I don't think I've ever seen the dev team get so hostile towards one another.....

[Rovert10]

Christ, I don't think I've ever seen the dev team get so hostile towards one another.....

Defender0 and Zero are consistently at each other necks.

I thought this was common knowledge.

[Normon]

Not to me....