90 replies to this topic

[sloosecannon]

People said that about people being hit by bullets, its not the blood loss that will kill you its the shock it does to you.
Its still a kinetic weapon the shock of being hit by it will do far more damage than the heat does alone, the heat and radiation only maximises its damage.
 

Also i reffered to the prothean beam weapons, pure radiation as an energy weapon.

Yes, but bullets are not, in fact, superheated matter put in a plasma state...

Let's put it this way... If I got shot by cold plasma, I would not be highly worried. It's the heat that kills you... And that's what the weapon is centered around. With a bullet, heat is a side-effect of going really, really fast

[Bornstellaris]

SPECTRE, I don't know what you don't get. Kinetic Barriers stop Kinetic projectiles only, that's why the Normandy SR-1 was destroyed without a fight in ME2, the Collecter ship uses Energy Beam weapons. It's also why Kinetic Barriers on the SR-2 were useless against the small Reaper craft in the final mission, because they use Energy Beam based weapons.

[SPECTRE]

Yes, but bullets are not, in fact, superheated matter put in a plasma state...

Let's put it this way... If I got shot by cold plasma, I would not be highly worried. It's the heat that kills you... And that's what the weapon is centered around. With a bullet, heat is a side-effect of going really, really fast

Do you know the health risks associated with plasma?

We had a 5 day saftey brief because somebody got some particles over them because of a plasma cutter.

Also are you aware that plasma emits strong electromagnetic fields? Even cold plasma would put your body into a state of shock.

If i were hit by a plasma bolt i would probably have a 66% of being killed immediately, and with that 33% survival chance you would soon die from 5th degree burns, blood loss, radiation or electrostatic discharge.

[SPECTRE]

SPECTRE, I don't know what you don't get. Kinetic Barriers stop Kinetic projectiles only, that's why the Normandy SR-1 was destroyed without a fight in ME2, the Collecter ship uses Energy Beam weapons. It's also why Kinetic Barriers on the SR-2 were useless against the small Reaper craft in the final mission, because they use Energy Beam based weapons.

Only counts for lasers, as lasers are pure light and radiation, the only protection against this would be some form of hard light, or physical barrier that can withstand the tolerances of the lasers damage.

[Bornstellaris]

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

[SPECTRE]

[i] Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation. [\i]

Plasma is the 4th state, not a radiation, toxin, or temp.

 

 

 

 

 

Lasers are not blocked by the kinetic barriers of capital ships (bar the ones employed by the Reapers, whose barriers are capable of blocking them to an extent).

And Don't make me repeat that particle beam weapons are stopped by kinetic barriers.

http://masseffect.wi.../Particle_Rifle

[Defender0]

*Flips table* I quit

[Emberblaque]

This entire disagreement results from imprecise definitions. How can anyone claim to be right when they don't know precisely what must be true for them to be so?

 

For one, a distinction should be made between radiation in general and electromagnetic radiation. Electromagnetic radiation is composed of photons, which are massless particles. Other radiation is composed of massive particles. Since particle beams are massive, it makes sense that they would be deflected by "kinetic barriers" within the context of ME's narrative physics. Directed-energy weapons are the closest nonfictional counterpart to ME's "energy weapons." They are defined as weapons that transfer energy to a target without the use of a projectile, and this class of weapons includes weapons that use electromagnetic radiation, particle beams and sound as the means of energy transfer. There are still some who don't consider particle beams to be directed-energy weapons because they are technically extremely small projectiles. Particle beams and plasma are massive, so depending on their speed, they may or may not be deflected by a "kinetic barrier" in ME's context. One may ambigiously assign both of them to the class of "energy weapons," as most science fiction authors and others often do, and in this case they would not be deflected by "kinetic barriers," since this is what the canon states. However, in a technical sense, plasma weapons are not directed-energy weapons, and while many consider particle beams to be directed-energy weapons, this is not a universal consensus.

 

The participants of this thread have three tasks before them if they want to stop talking in circles and reach any sort of remotely rigorous conclusion in this sea of speculation:

 

1. Precisely define Mass Effect's class of weapons known as "energy weapons."

2. If the class of "energy weapons" is defined as equivalent to the class of directed-energy weapons, classify plasma weapons as directed-energy weapons or non-directed-energy weapons.

3. If the class of "energy weapons" is defined as equivalent to the class of directed-energy weapons, classify particle beam weapons as directed-energy weapons or non-directed-energy weapons.

[Defender0]

This entire disagreement results from imprecise definitions. How can anyone claim to be right when they don't know precisely what must be true for them to be so?

 

For one, a distinction should be made between radiation in general and electromagnetic radiation. Electromagnetic radiation is composed of photons, which are massless particles. Other radiation is composed of massive particles. Since particle beams are massive, it makes sense that they would be deflected by "kinetic barriers" within the context of ME's narrative physics. Directed-energy weapons are the closest nonfictional counterpart to ME's "energy weapons." They are defined as weapons that transfer energy to a target without the use of a projectile, and this class of weapons includes weapons that use electromagnetic radiation, particle beams and sound as the means of energy transfer. There are still some who don't consider particle beams to be directed-energy weapons because they are technically extremely small projectiles. Particle beams and plasma are massive, so depending on their speed, they may or may not be deflected by a "kinetic barrier" in ME's context. One may ambigiously assign both of them to the class of "energy weapons," as most science fiction authors and others often do, and in this case they would not be deflected by "kinetic barriers," since this is what the canon states. However, in a technical sense, plasma weapons are not directed-energy weapons, and while many consider particle beams to be directed-energy weapons, this is not a universal consensus.

 

The participants of this thread have three tasks before them if they want to stop talking in circles and reach any sort of remotely rigorous conclusion in this sea of speculation:

 

1. Precisely define Mass Effect's class of weapons known as "energy weapons."

2. If the class of "energy weapons" is defined as equivalent to the class of directed-energy weapons, classify plasma weapons as directed-energy weapons or non-directed-energy weapons.

3. If the class of "energy weapons" is defined as equivalent to the class of directed-energy weapons, classify particle beam weapons as directed-energy weapons or non-directed-energy weapons.

I dont disagree with anything here, but im wondering why we got into a mass effect discussion in the first place?

[Emberblaque]

I dont disagree with anything here, but im wondering why we got into a mass effect discussion in the first place?

This is a forum, the discussion's progression is a matter of public record. The record is, however, emphatically incomprehensible. Particularly the part about Ardent Prayer and Savannah. I swear both of you switched arguments and sides between the beginning of the argument and Bornsteller bringing up the distinction between energy shielding and kinetic barriers. I read it through four times and could not get a beat.

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

*Popcorn*

[Zero]

*Flips table* I quit

Now you understand my torment. Rise young Developer, you may take a seat with the old timers.

[sloosecannon]

Plasma is the 4th state, not a radiation, toxin, or temp.

Generally, matter doesn't turn into plasma at room temperature... It usually needs to be a little bit hotter to do that...

[Emberblaque]

Generally, matter doesn't turn into plasma at room temperature... It usually needs to be a little bit hotter to do that...

 

 

Matter that emits a lot of electromagnetic radiation is still matter. It still isn't a directed-energy weapon in my book, or anyone else's. Glowy != energy.

 

SPECTRE, kinetic barriers are different from shields because Bioware says so. It's not a matter of reasoning.

[Bornstellaris]

SPECTRE, kinetic barriers are different from shields because Bioware says so. It's not a matter of reasoning.

Thank you!

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

It seems i was to late with the popcorn.

[sloosecannon]

Matter that emits a lot of electromagnetic radiation is still matter. It still isn't a directed-energy weapon in my book, or anyone else's. Glowy != energy.

 

SPECTRE, kinetic barriers are different from shields because Bioware says so. It's not a matter of reasoning.

Oh I know. It just doesn't function as most "Projectile weapons" would in the sense of shields - IE, shields will probably try to block the energy associated with the plasma, not the particles themselves...

[m468]

SPECTRE you need to watch what you say here. You are not the ultimate authority on everything. If you seem to think that you now more than everyone on these forums you are gravly mistaken. I hope that this is not what you think however it is what cones across in your statments. I will be blunt here this is a HALO lore section leave it at that. DO NOT BRING UP ANY CROSS UNIVERSE COMPARISONS IN THIS SECTION FROM HETE ON OUT. Do I make my self clear?

[sloosecannon]

Let's try that again, shall we?

[SPECTRE]

Let's try that again, shall we?

Nope.

Threats really have the opposite effect on me.