115 replies to this topic

[TheBigMan27]

Ah well, I fella can dream can't he? Lol.

[Defender0]

Ah well, I fella can dream can't he? Lol.

To be fair, you did suggest things that go along with the Covenant "theme", so dont put yourself down completely. You were just stopped by potentially breaking the AI, a problem similar to hardcoding in some situations.

If you have anything else to suggest, feel free to speak your mind. These were not bad ideas in the slightest.

[TheBigMan27]

I think thats what the mod team is going for, BUT!!! there should still be a tiny bit of defense. High Charity itself had a massive point defense grid surrounding it, which would decimate the entire UNSC fleet. It is not a far stretch to say that the covenant had some kind of defense grid around their planets, just not nearly as big as the UNSC. As such, there should be hangars for seraphs, repair stations, and a renamed, remodeled "Phase Stabilizer" from the vasari (to improve covenant mobility). Also, there is something that should be considered, and ill need a dev to answer this

removing a star base: is it stopped by hardcoding?

I wasn't implying that there should be nothing in the way of defense, more of that I think the whole idea of a ridiculously powerful starbase, in my opinion, is just not what the mod needs. Like I would love to see almost all Covenant planetary defense positioned around fighters and have some just piss poor turrets that at best could hold off a small fleet for some time. I'm probably wrong on this, I know the mod team knows what's best.

[Defender0]

Ok, we cant have purely fighter defenses because some people would have performance issues from all of the models on screen at once. However, i do think it would not be a bad idea to revisit covenant turrets. They were removed previously, but there is no reason NOT to bring them back in, as far as i can tell. The only other option, as you have suggested, is fighter defenses.

[m468]

On the topic of defenses would it be too far of a stretch to think that the covenant would have some sort of plasma torpedo batteries in orbit of their planets..? I can defiantly see pulse lasers... But I'm not an expert on cannon... So I'm just asking.

[sloosecannon]

[petpeeve]
Well, luckily the Covenant doesn't use cannons, that's the UNSC, so that's good... Or did you mean "canon"?
[/petpeeve]

We had plasma batteries for a while... I think we'll do that eventually once we get models and stuff

[Defender0]

The thing to remember is that, if the covenant get defense turrets, they are not going to be anywhere near as good as UNSC SMAC platforms.

[m468]

The thing to remember is that, if the covenant get defense turrets, they are not going to be anywhere near as good as UNSC SMAC platforms.

Hence the pulse laser suggestion and that I assume energy projectors are not going to happen sense the Covenant have a totally different view of combat compared to the UNSC.

[Defender0]

Hence the pulse laser suggestion and that I assume energy projectors are not going to happen sense the Covenant have a totally different view of combat compared to the UNSC.

Exactly. Do not expect a covenant turret to be little more than something that takes out a charon or paris frigate in one shot. Energy projectors are for the bigger covenant ships, not defenses.

[Dhoulmegus]

The Covenant sure loved putting AA cannons all over the surface of the planets they invaded. I don't see it as being too far fetched that they would put up AS cannons in orbit around their planets.

[Defender0]

The Covenant sure loved putting AA cannons all over the surface of the planets they invaded. I don't see it as being too far fetched that they would put up AS cannons in orbit around their planets.

i agree, but they wouldnt be as powerful as an SMAC i would think.

[Dhoulmegus]

i agree, but they wouldnt be as powerful as an SMAC i would think.

Not once did I even imply that, but I highly doubt they would be that strong too. Though I am sure they would be at least as strong as the plasma torpedos equipped to Covenant ships.

[Defender0]

Not once did I even imply that, but I highly doubt they would be that strong too. Though I am sure they would be at least as strong as the plasma torpedos equipped to Covenant ships.

of course, im not saying you implied that at all. I just want to point out to people in general that any covenant turrets will be weak.

[Dhoulmegus]

of course, im not saying you implied that at all. I just want to point out to people in general that any covenant turrets will be weak.

I can easily misinterpret things written, especially on the internet, so apologies. Also since the Covenant never put shields on the ground turrets and pretty much left the core power chamber exposed, the turrets they might put in space would most likely resemble the design and be easily destroyed by even the lightest of UNSC warvessels, so long as they get in range before the turret shoots them down.

[Defender0]

I can easily misinterpret things written, especially on the internet, so apologies. Also since the Covenant never put shields on the ground turrets and pretty much left the core power chamber exposed, the turrets they might put in space would most likely resemble the design and be easily destroyed by even the lightest of UNSC warvessels, so long as they get in range before the turret shoots them down.

agreed, i often found it weird that the covenant AA cannons in halo 3 were able to be taken out by a few rockets, given their size

[KhevaKins]

On top of this, currently the Covenant starbase is the only reliable defense platform the Covenant have against a significant UNSC force. Without it, the covenant planets would drop like flies without fleet support. Im not saying the covenant need SMAC level defenses, im just saying there needs to at least be a few pieces of paper between the covenant planets and UNSC attackers.

Well in the books when ever the UNSC did manage to infiltrate behind enemy line or into territory that the covenant thought was secured they usually messed stuff up before the covenant was able to respond. Like the Hierophant or the head hunters or Operation:Prometheus or the many other examples that I couldn't be bothered looking up.

Also the covenant did have dedicated planet defenses. In the Kilo-Five books there are defense around Sanghelios. The pelicans that Kilo-Five and Hood descend down on has to follow a strict flight path or be destroyed by said defenses.

[Defkab]

I'm not getting why these turrets, if existing, would be weak?
It's been stated several times that the UNSC needs 3 - 1 odds to defeat the Covenant, even in light frigate battles. Covenant firepower is so advanced, they would surely apply it to their defenses. Sure, their cruiser's projectors could slice a ship in half, but even their Plasma Cannons would turn a ship into a melted metal globule in one shot. Their lightest ship-based weapons have amazing range (The UNSC would have to evade a first shot just to get into MAC range), and be just as destructive as a MAC (as it would take about two shots from either a ship borne MAC or a Plasma Cannon, as we saw when the Keyes Manuever placed a Covenant frigate in the way of friendly fire.)
It only makes sense that if they were to make a planetary defense, it would be the best it could be. I see it as having a farther range, and similar damage output, but perhaps a lot easier to destroy, for the reasons stated above.

[sloosecannon]

I'm not getting why these turrets, if existing, would be weak?
It's been stated several times that the UNSC needs 3 - 1 odds to defeat the Covenant, even in light frigate battles. Covenant firepower is so advanced, they would surely apply it to their defenses. Sure, their cruiser's projectors could slice a ship in half, but even their Plasma Cannons would turn a ship into a melted metal globule in one shot. Their lightest ship-based weapons have amazing range (The UNSC would have to evade a first shot just to get into MAC range), and be just as destructive as a MAC (as it would take about two shots from either a ship borne MAC or a Plasma Cannon, as we saw when the Keyes Manuever placed a Covenant frigate in the way of friendly fire.)
It only makes sense that if they were to make a planetary defense, it would be the best it could be. I see it as having a farther range, and similar damage output, but perhaps a lot easier to destroy, for the reasons stated above.

2 reasons, and this may be a situation where we may slightly sacrifice canon for gameplay.

Canon reasoning: As has been stated, behind-front-lines attacks on the Covenant were surprisingly effective
Perhaps the Covenant doesn't do defense planning, perhaps they never envisioned that they even could be attacked. Also, we've seen in canon sources places where Covenant tech is behind where it would be expected, even to the point where the UNSC surpasses it. AIs are an excellent example of this situation. It isn't too much of a stretch to assume that the covenant, never having actually fought a defensive war, may not have defensive tech.

Gameplay reasoning: The covenant is a rush faction. Its strength comes from its ships. The lack of good defenses pushes the Covenant player to rush and attack. If their defenses were equal or better than UNSC defenses, it would make the game unbalanced and break the "theme" we're going for with the Covenant

[Zero]

Just think of it this way: the Covenant is incredibly arrogant. Whatever defenses they may posess would be miniscule much like the turrets for the Covenant in Halo Wars compared to the UNSC. As a Covenant player, you shouldn't really need defences unless its a late game defense only because the Covenant should be more than capable of attacking and defending with their superior fleets. A star base would be great because instead of the UNSC building theirs to hold territory, the Covenant player should build a star base on the frontier of UNSC territory to stage an attack like the Heirophant. I think making the Heirophant mobile but weak would be the best combo because.you could move it into position and your staging fleet could be repaired and replenished after a battle and likewise strike fear into an unsuspectig scout.

[Defender0]

late game defense

I feel that, if the covenant need defenses in the late game, their fleet is outmatched by the UNSC and they will innevitably lose. Most of their defense will come from either a starbase or a fleet, or both.