456 replies to this topic

[Whitehalomango]

But ODST's are AMAZING! I don't know why I just love them. A Insurrection game would be cool. Isn't there a mod for one being made?  Oh and you can't forget the noose around their neck, sand in eyes and the funny-bone smashing hammers.   My favourite book is either Contact Harvest of the Flood ATM.

[SternuS]

I don't know why I just love them.

 

Because they're awesome, that's why.

 

And 343i did not even care to put them in Halo 4. But of course, they "care for the lore".

[Jaeger]

Because they're awesome, that's why.

 

And 343i did not even care to put them in Halo 4. But of course, they "care for the lore".

Unless Im mistaken they are in Halo4 they just look retarded as fuck. They look like marines just dressed in black. I'm not joking either they look stupid as fuck with no badass helmet or armor. Just a black UNSC marine armor uniform.

[SternuS]

Unless Im mistaken they are in Halo4 they just look retarded as fuck. They look like marines just dressed in black. I'm not joking either they look stupid as fuck with no badass helmet or armor. Just a black UNSC marine armor uniform.

Nope, according to the Halo 4: Essential Visual Guide, they're ONI Guards.

[MrChipps]

Nope, according to the Halo 4: Essential Visual Guide, they're ONI Guards.

Yup, ONI guards. The only mention of ODSTs in H4 is that awful gen 2 mjolnir adaptation of ODST armour.

[SternuS]

Yup, ONI guards. The only mention of ODSTs in H4 is that awful gen 2 mjolnir adaptation of ODST armour.

Which isn't even in the MCC. Pfft.

[MrChipps]

Which isn't even in the MCC. Pfft.

Buuut lots of odst in the mcc on the whole

[Whitehalomango]

They didn't even bother to include a unit that had its own game in Halo 4! It wouldn't have been THAT hard to add them, would it?   I wanna wear awesome badass armour 343i not forerunner bullshit armour!  I remember back in Halo Reach, I made myself a even more badass black/grey/silver ODST with Buck's voice. He's awesome. 

[Lord Stark]

I agree with you on every point exept the last, ONI does not report to Hood or Centcom since they are their own seperate branch headed by adm Osman.

Nope, technically the Office of Naval Intelligence is subordinate to the Chief of Naval Operations, Hood was also the de facto leader of the UNSC through the war.  ONI has just usurped so much unoffical under the table power than they do shit under Hood's nose and Hood kind of pretends its not happening.  That way if shit does hit the fan he has plausible deniability.  But shit like this should have been told to him.  I mean FFS Hood straight up outranks Osman.  He's a 5 star officer, Osman's only 4.  A fact that both Kilo-Five and Escalation seem to be forgetting.

 

 

Have you read the Kilo-5 trilogy? ONI more or less runs the UNSC and only tells others what they want to hear.

Meh, the novels also label Hood as nominally the most powerful person in UNSC space.  It also implies Hood has an idea what's up during those novels but chooses not to address it so he can negotiate with the Arbiter in good faith.  

[sloosecannon]

He's a 5 star officer, Osman's only 4.

*General officer. Or in this case, admiral.

That's not how that works though, it's all about the chain of command. Which in Halo is... a little screwy. I'm not sure what role in the chain the "Chief of Naval Operations" is, but from my albeit short reference reading, it appears that he's in charge of the equivalent of a USAF MAJCOM. ONI would also (probably) fall into its own MAJCOM, so technically Osman never has to report to Hood. However, Osman should report to someone (equivalent to US Secretary of the Navy) who would probably inform Hood of anything relevant to his SA.

Also, if you look at the titles, you'll see that Osman can't report to Hood.

His title is Chief of Naval Operations.
Hers is Commander, Office of Naval Intelligence

Command *always* reports to command. Osman either reports to another commander or directly to the person in command of the UNSC Navy.

(Of course, in the "real world", O-N-I (correct pronunciation) works heavily with agencies like DIA, CIA, NASIC, etc. So the chain is kinda screwy there too. Still if they make decisions that affect the operational capacity of the Navy, it's probably a good idea to at least make a courtesy call)


</Military chain of command and intel buff mode>

[Lord Stark]

^I see your point.  Kinda like how regional commanders don't report to the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  However considering that Hood is chair of CENTCOM and is the de facto Commander of the UNSC Osman should report to him, at least she did until Hood relinquished emergency powers back to the President.  

[MrChipps]

No, Osman did not report to Hood during the war, she reported to Parangosky at the time.

ONI rarely reports anything to anyone, ONI does the dirty stuff no one else want's to know.

[Lord Stark]

No, Osman did not report to Hood during the war, she reported to Parangosky at the time.

ONI rarely reports anything to anyone, ONI does the dirty stuff no one else want's to know.

Parangosky reported to Hood.  After doing some research I learned that Hood is not just CNO, but also Commander-in-Chief, Fleet.

 

The Commander, ONI reports to the Commander, Fleet because the ONI is a part of the Navy, not its own branch.  Even glasslands with all of its ONI wank states "Admiral of the Fleet, nominally the most powerful man on Earth"

[Fleet Admiral agigabyte]

Just because they are supposed to report in officially does not mean they do, or that anyone wants them to.

[MrChipps]

ONI never told hood about the Mona Lisas true purpose nor their support of Telcam or the bilogical weapons programme with the goal of committing genocide on the sangheili.

[Lord Stark]

ONI never told hood about the Mona Lisas true purpose nor their support of Telcam or the bilogical weapons programme with the goal of committing genocide on the sangheili.

The CIA lied to the White House and told them torture was an effective means of acquiring information.  That doesn't mean they don't answer to the President.  

[MrChipps]

The CIA lied to the White House and told them torture was an effective means of acquiring information.  That doesn't mean they don't answer to the President.

You are missing the point, ONI is supposed to inform centcom and whatnot but they have accrued so much power during the war that they do what they want.

[sloosecannon]

Parangosky reported to Hood.  After doing some research I learned that Hood is not just CNO, but also Commander-in-Chief, Fleet.
 
The Commander, ONI reports to the Commander, Fleet because the ONI is a part of the Navy, not its own branch.  Even glasslands with all of its ONI wank states "Admiral of the Fleet, nominally the most powerful man on Earth"

It's tough to say, especially with the distinct lack of clarity on the top tiers of leadership, but Commander, Fleet (or its equivalent in modern day Navies) should not be the commander of the entire Naval force. FleetCOM is essentially the operational branch of the UNSC Navy - While he may be called the "most powerful man on Earth", that is probably said in the sense that he wields more military power than anyone else. In other words, if the Lieutenant has a gun and the Captain doesn't, the Lieutenant has more power, even if he is outranked by the Captain.

However - the lack of any kind of reporting or notification of ONI operations to the local area command at all indicates a serious problem in the UNSC Chain of Command - For another modern day example, in combat areas, the USAF has situational awareness of ALL blue air forces, even if some of them are non-USAF (USN fighter jets, USA helicopters, etc) or even highly sensitive (special forces) air units. In many cases, this even extends outside of the US Military and includes allied aircraft. This keeps friendlies from splashing friendlies and also ensures unity of command (IE: There is always one, and ONLY one commander. Command reports to command, and multiple lower commanders report to a higher commander, but it works iff there is only one commander to report to), something which appears to be sorely lacking in the UNSCDF, namely due to ONI's apparent autonomy and power creep.

Of course, from a real world perspective, this is probably because Bungie (to a certain extent) and 343i have no idea how a real military functions and take their ideas from popularized movies and TV, some of which are horrendously wrong, especially about the finer technicalities of leadership concepts like chain of command. It did seem to be less apparent under Bungie, but that may also be just because they never delved into the topic. 343i seems to be really pulling Militaryisms out of their butt now though

[Unikraken]

I tend to agree with everything Sloose has said, but I think the issues with the CoC between the UNSC and ONI largely comes from the nature of their current predicament. First of all, ONI is more akin to the CIA than the actual Office of Naval Intelligence. Then one must consider the nature of ONI operations, especially just before the arrival of the Covenant. ONI was given special permission to run a muck in UNSC space because simulations had shown the unified human empire would collapse in 20 years if the insurrection wasn't halted immediately. This is the primary reason ONI was allowed to steal and flash clone children and run assassination ops. When the Covenant attacked everything was scrambled to figure out who they were and how they could be stopped. This meant ONI was left with powers it shouldn't have had because the UNSC assumed it was only going to be used to against the Covenant, while instead ONI used their blank check on authority to acquire institutional power and favors from every tier of society. ONI lost oversight and everyone suffered because of it, because an organization like the CIA or ONI need some outside moral structure to reign in their activities or they lose focus.

[MrChipps]

I tend to agree with everything Sloose has said, but I think the issues with the CoC between the UNSC and ONI largely comes from the nature of their current predicament. First of all, ONI is more akin to the CIA than the actual Office of Naval Intelligence. Then one must consider the nature of ONI operations, especially just before the arrival of the Covenant. ONI was given special permission to run a muck in UNSC space because simulations had shown the unified human empire would collapse in 20 years if the insurrection wasn't halted immediately. This is the primary reason ONI was allowed to steal and flash clone children and run assassination ops. When the Covenant attacked everything was scrambled to figure out who they were and how they could be stopped. This meant ONI was left with powers it shouldn't have had because the UNSC assumed it was only going to be used to against the Covenant, while instead ONI used their blank check on authority to acquire institutional power and favors from every tier of society. ONI lost oversight and everyone suffered because of it, because an organization like the CIA or ONI need some outside moral structure to reign in their activities or they lose focus.

Thank you, this is what I was trying to say in my clumsy post.