152 replies to this topic

[SPECTRE]

You're forgetting 2 out of 3 covenant ships were destroyed. Total covenant ships = 750. this means 500 were destroyed.

I'm betting those remaining 250 ships where crippled or damaged.

All the UNSC could muster was 152 ships, of which 130 destroyed. That still leaves very good odds. 

The infinity would be Command and control. If the infinity was destroyed think about how many ships you could still fit behind her hulk.

If infinity was the last ship standing, Hit and run out of spaceship, deploy stridents to clean up. 

[m468]

The only factor that could have had an impact would have been that fact that infinity carried large numbers of HAVIOKs and that her broadsword complement would have been capable of delivering a large number to the covenant fleet. That being said humanity would have lost the battle because of the numbers. The UNSC Would have needed like 5. Infinity's plus their complement and a sizable increase in the numbers of the rest of the fleet to ensure victory.

[SternuS]

Infinity is strong indeed. But odds of the UNSC winning THAT battle with the help of the Infinity alone are quite, quite low.

Considering that no matter how strong your unit is, if it gets surrounded and outnumbered and most importantly if it's getting sniped from a long distance by a very powerful weapon, in this case supercarriers' lasers, it will fall. How many Covenant ships will it take with her, it is unknown, but probably a lot. Yet UNSC would've not won that battle.

[SPECTRE]

Right let me tell you something, From an ex soldier to (presumably) civilians. After a battle is over, the winning side (if there is a definitive winner), the remaining forces will be using broken or damaged equipment, scattered, low on morale and low on what is called "battle energy" (Imagine a train hitting a brick wall and stopping).

So only 250 ships, most of them damaged, crews low on morale, scattered, Lost the advantage of surprise, and would have Lost momentum.

Easy pickings for Infinity, Striking at the remaining ships (cruiser or above) whilst the stridents mop up and prevent the covenant from regrouping.

[chiefship]

but to attack this 250 ship, there must be something left that could still fly and attack (i doubt that the infinity could still fight after such a battle, maybe fly but defenitly not fight).

[SPECTRE]

You're just not getting me.

Without infinity 250 covie ships survived, of which i estimate around 75 are critically damaged, 150 are suffering from minor damage, the rest are pretty much unscathed.

Of these 250 ships they are at most in groups of 4 or 5 at most.

If infinity Was there its main usage would be to co ordinate the fleet, And with a slipspace drive that accurate conduct hit and run attacks from slipspace.

For all we know that super-cruiser may not have had any shields, or why else would it do hit and run tactics?

And the battle was so fierce that the Jiralhanae vessel Valorous Salvation fled the battle.

Also despite the fall of reach starting on july 23rd, the actual fleet engagement started on the 13th of august, and reinforcements for the covenant only turned up on august 30th.

[Aunt Gruntie]

Right let me tell you something, From an ex soldier to (presumably) civilians. After a battle is over, the winning side (if there is a definitive winner), the remaining forces will be using broken or damaged equipment, scattered, low on morale and low on what is called "battle energy" (Imagine a train hitting a brick wall and stopping).

So only 250 ships, most of them damaged, crews low on morale, scattered, Lost the advantage of surprise, and would have Lost momentum.

Easy pickings for Infinity, Striking at the remaining ships (cruiser or above) whilst the stridents mop up and prevent the covenant from regrouping.

 

Are you assuming that the Infinity is coming after the battle as reinforcements? Cus it seems everyone else is .... damit cant think of the word.... but it seems everyone else is makin it so the Infinity is stationed at Reach before the battle so she is there in the thick of it the entire time, which changes your argument significantly.

[SPECTRE]

I was assuming All options.

1. Infinity is based at reach and does hit and run tactics.
2. Infinity is based at reach and acts as command and control.
3. infinity is based at reach and goes all out into battle.
4. Infinity arrives at reach before the second naval engagement.
5. infinity arrives at reach after the second naval engagement.

Only options 3 and 4 involve any risk to infinity. And only if the covenant fleet concentrates fire, resulting in the rest of the UNSC fleet decimating the covvies. Salvo after salvo.

[Rovert10]

Just name the bloody thing UNSC Enterprise. That'll ensure your victory. :V

[Bornstellaris]

Spectre, read the books. The Super cruiser did indeed have shields.

[SPECTRE]

I have read the books, but why hit and run? Why?

Most illogical for a race that tends to overwhelm rather than think out of the box.

[sloosecannon]

I have read the books, but why hit and run? Why?

Most illogical for a race that tends to overwhelm rather than think out of the box.

Cuz they didn't want it blown up by some random Longsword with a nuke? oh wait...

[SPECTRE]

Its still weird don't you think.

SternuS would know what to make of it.

[sloosecannon]

Its still weird don't you think.

SternuS would know what to make of it.

lol...

It's odd, but who knows, maybe they had a competent commander who realized that the the Supercruiser was a key asset that they needed to protect. I'm sure there were smart captains in the Covenant too, even if most of them were crazy religious nutheads who listened to their commanders' orders without a second thought...

[SPECTRE]

You should always question orders, but never out loud, and always do them without stopping. That is the way soldiers raised from birth would do.

[Bornstellaris]

I have read the books, but why hit and run? Why?
Most illogical for a race that tends to overwhelm rather than think out of the box.

Because they didn't want a SMAC round up their ass.

[psdt]

I think you've raised valid points (everyone). I think the effect that Infinity would have on the battle depends largely on when it joined the conflict. Like I said earlier I also don't think that all of the Covenant ships arrived at once. With a bit of good fortune and timing I think that Infinity, accompanied by a task force of smaller ships, could well have decimated Covenant ships as they arrived. However, if I'm wrong and all ~700 Covenant ships arrived at once, then yeah. I think Infinity and Reach would've gone down in a blaze of glory regardless. Honestly there's too many factors to say for sure if Infinity would've turned the tide. But I can say for sure it would've smashed some heads. Considering that it's the size of a CAS(?) carrier, heavily shielded, armed and armored. I think it would've taken down  ~100 ships. Remember it put a hole in "Mantle's Approach". And its shields can literally smash through covenant vessels.

[Zero]

Because they didn't want a SMAC round up their ass.

This. Plus it wasn't just the supercruiser jumping in and out, it was a handful of ships that would jump in between the UNSC fleet and the SMAC wall, take out a few ships, then jump back beyond the firing zone of the orbital defense platforms. Even if Infinity were to do pin pointed slipspace jumps multiple times, it would surely put a strain on the reactor - Forerunner or not. Furthermore, the power needed to amplify all four of its MACs plus its entire point defense systems, would just cripple the ship. Yes it has Forerunner engines and technology integrated, but its done with human understanding. The Prometheans from Requiem were capable of slipspacing themselves onto the Infinity, thus bolstering our understanding of Forerunner technology is not entirely what we seem to think it is. Besides, doing hit and run tactics inside a fleet of 700+ ships by yourself would be suicide because even if Infinity took the time to deploy its units in the thick of things, all ships would focus fire on the Infinity because it would be in deep without cover from both the UNSC fleet and SMAC wall and would be severely overwhelmed. In the time it took for Infinity to spool up FTL while firing its guns, it would probably be obliterated by over a hundred energy projectors (charge time for MACs, point defense turrets and firing of rockets would not be instantaneous).

 

A huge majority of the Covenant forces hid outside the firing range of the SMACs until the generators on the planet were destroyed. Once the defense wall was obsolete is when they really engaged the UNSC above Reach. That was the reason why the Covenant did the hit and run, to deploy thousands of dropships to the surface.

[m468]

The only major effect Infinity would have had on the battle would have been from the broadswords it carried. Remember each one was capable of carrying a HAVOK tac nuke. While not as powerful as a Shiva it would have an effect on a single covenant ship, one might not knock the shields down but several ones would.

All of that considered Infinity's impact on the outcome of the battle would have been negligible. Now even if Infinity showed up after the main battle it would have had a sizable fleet to contend with. Even damaged covenant ships were capable of putting up a serious fight I doubt that Infinity would have stayed to fight a battle that had already been lost. Reach was lost the moment the Covenant overran the generators for the ODPs. With covenant troops on the ground and the Orbital Defence Grid down HIGHCOM new they lost, it was just a matter of evacuating what they could while not losing to many more ships in the process. Truely Reach was lost the moment the Covenant realized the importance of that planet to te UNSC.

[Bornstellaris]

Like m4 said, the battle for reach was lost when the covenant landed troops. The Infinity would have made a huge difference in the ground battle. Infinities point defence system alone would have cut through most of the phantoms and drop ships. Then there is the hundreds of spartans, marines, broadswords and ground equipment on board. I believe Infinity could have repelled the ground invasion, thus saving the SMAC's. Whether this would have made a difference in space, who knows.